4 ms·

While I do agree with the sentiment of the article and that all these workers should be paid a good living wage (especially the ones labelled essential during c

While I do agree with the sentiment of the article and that all these workers should be paid a good living wage (especially the ones labelled essential during covid!)... I love on-demand everything. There is no way I ever will go back to doing some chores manually, like grocery shopping. _Some_ things will always stay ultimately, like great restaurants/bars/clubs/... _if_ they focus on the human experience. I do not drive to a italian restaurant any longer to have a great pizza - I could simply order me one nowadays! - but the experience maybe a few hours of the flair being there.

Lacerda69 4y ago
Sounds weird to me tbh. I would never feel comfortable having someone else doing my shopping for me - unless i was severely incapacitated for some reason of course. Same with cooking, cleaning, washing my clothes etc. I could pay someone to do that but I get a lot of joy out of basic chores I guess.
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  I used to think the same, until my local walmart went self checkout only. From that point forward I started using the 'pickup' option. I flat out refuse to bag my own groceries. I'm not sure what the thought process was there. Walmart went from me doing most of the work to them doing almost everything. The day pickup stops being free, I'll likely just throw in the towel and start paying more to get groceries from another chain.
  - gretch 4y ago
    several benefits probably 1) Pickup is asynchronous, so no long lines will form. If it's busy you get the notification ~15 minutes later than you normally would 2) There's no possibility of shop lifting (not saying that _you_ steal, but inevitably some people do) 3) Maybe the parking lot or the store is actually full (fire code) and the actually amount of commerce is being bottlenecked by people in the store. You can literally just sell more stuff if you have everyone do a 2 minutes pickup. 4) Pickup selection requires you to go into the app, perhaps where they have opportunities to upsell you in clever algorithmic ways. Chalk it up as a win-win. Not everything has to be either they lose or I lose
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    Interesting. I usually bag my own if I can, in order to keep the rotisserie chicken from being packed with the frozen peas. Most baggers don't care enough about this kind of thing in my experience.
  - kderbyma 4y ago
    Avoid Walmart. just shop at the locals grocer. Trust me. they will appreciate it, and Walmart will maybe get better (bwahahaha)
    - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
      See, where they got me is their cheap generic prescription drugs.
- kderbyma 4y ago
  same. It feels infantile and sure 'time is money' but that's just a way of making your self feel over important imho
uoaei 4y ago
I am not sure if this is exactly your intention, but you are advocating the position that "my convenience is worth your agony". I think we can do better than that. A person's role in society goes far beyond that of the mere consumer.
- geodel 4y ago
  Yeah I think this is the vibe: I need high quality supplies, restaurant food at my doorstep. If it somehow result in low wage/ worker agony, this is the sacrifice I am willing to make
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > this is the sacrifice I am willing to make That would probably be better phrased along the lines of, "that's a price I'm willing to make you pay." Basically make it crystal clear the person speaking is not the one making the sacrifice, but rather perverting the phraseology of self-sacrifice.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  I think the way to have this cake and eat it too is to personally be an extraordinarily good cash tipper. You'll still be supporting the system, but you'll ameliorate your personal use of it.
  - rlkf 4y ago
    Adding tips will probably just cause the business to lower the wages, making the workers more dependent on a semi-random stream of tips instead of a fixed income, making life worse for them. Restaurants now work like that, and workers are voting with their feet. No need to extend this to other industries.
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      If it's a cash tip the app doesn't know it happened. It's not like restaurants. No manager is there to make everyone count up their tips at the end of the shift.
rideontime 4y ago
Would you be willing to pay enough for your "on-demand everything" to provide a living wage to those who enable it?
- msmenardi 4y ago
  The more you have to pay for it, the fewer people have access to "on-demand everything". Meaning it'll become a luxury of the richer side of the arbitrary cut-off line where ordering groceries or getting an Uber is financially feasible. The less these services cost, the better for all of us. The solution that solves that problem is to remove the infrastructure from the capitalist market - for example, by nationalizing UberEats or Amazon (although nationalization isn't the only option) Doing so would allow the business to continue as usual but the expenses that are external to each transaction would be offloaded to a third party (the government for example, or just written off) thus allowing the maximum amount of people to access the service at the lowest price.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  As opposed to paying more in taxes to provide a social safety net for those individuals? 6 in one, half dozen in the other.
- anonyfox 4y ago
  Yes. Getting what you want when you want it does not necessarily mean cheap exploitation. We „only“ need to stop shareholders siphoning money and redirect that wealth back to the workers instead. Worst case the working class would have money to spend, maybe even for other convenience on-demand stuff, recursively. I would be willing to accept a few dozen billionaires being degraded to millionaires as the prize, when in doubt they can protest on the streets against that.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  Not long ago teens up to twenty or so did this kind of work. Fast food, pizza delivery, etc. The skills-required and profit margins for these jobs aren't the kind to support raising a family on. Everyone knew this and accepted it. Transitioning folks into skilled/good-paying jobs would be better than trying to make service jobs a desired destination.
yunwal 4y ago
> There is no way I ever will go back to doing some chores manually, like grocery shopping. Awesome, these companies can pay good wages to their workers and pass on the cost knowing they won’t lose you as a customer.
- anonyfox 4y ago
  Actually, yes. For example Edeka (German supermarket chain) increases prices when ordering significantly as well as adding a base fee for shipping. This roughly adds 30%-50% compared of buying the same things in the same store manually. Sure, it’s a luxury position to say that, but I happily pay that.
  - yunwal 4y ago
    Genuinely, if workers are paid a living wage, this is great to hear. Sorry for being a cynical American :)
armchairhacker 4y ago
It seems like DoorDash, Uber etc. really are great jobs for people who have trouble getting more traditional jobs: people without prior skills or connections who just want an easy job, "want to be their own boss", don't want rigid structure, etc. As they were originally and still are marketed. They just need to be treated and payed better. The people using these services by design have money to spend, "outrageous" delivery tips and fees can be justified if the fees are actually going to the workers.

Lacerda69 4y ago

Sounds weird to me tbh. I would never feel comfortable having someone else doing my shopping for me - unless i was severely incapacitated for some reason of course. Same with cooking, cleaning, washing my clothes etc. I could pay someone to do that but I get a lot of joy out of basic chores I guess.

wing-_-nuts 4y ago
I used to think the same, until my local walmart went self checkout only. From that point forward I started using the 'pickup' option. I flat out refuse to bag my own groceries. I'm not sure what the thought process was there. Walmart went from me doing most of the work to them doing almost everything. The day pickup stops being free, I'll likely just throw in the towel and start paying more to get groceries from another chain.
- gretch 4y ago
  several benefits probably 1) Pickup is asynchronous, so no long lines will form. If it's busy you get the notification ~15 minutes later than you normally would 2) There's no possibility of shop lifting (not saying that _you_ steal, but inevitably some people do) 3) Maybe the parking lot or the store is actually full (fire code) and the actually amount of commerce is being bottlenecked by people in the store. You can literally just sell more stuff if you have everyone do a 2 minutes pickup. 4) Pickup selection requires you to go into the app, perhaps where they have opportunities to upsell you in clever algorithmic ways. Chalk it up as a win-win. Not everything has to be either they lose or I lose
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  Interesting. I usually bag my own if I can, in order to keep the rotisserie chicken from being packed with the frozen peas. Most baggers don't care enough about this kind of thing in my experience.
- kderbyma 4y ago
  Avoid Walmart. just shop at the locals grocer. Trust me. they will appreciate it, and Walmart will maybe get better (bwahahaha)
  - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
    See, where they got me is their cheap generic prescription drugs.
kderbyma 4y ago
same. It feels infantile and sure 'time is money' but that's just a way of making your self feel over important imho

uoaei 4y ago

I am not sure if this is exactly your intention, but you are advocating the position that "my convenience is worth your agony". I think we can do better than that. A person's role in society goes far beyond that of the mere consumer.

geodel 4y ago
Yeah I think this is the vibe: I need high quality supplies, restaurant food at my doorstep. If it somehow result in low wage/ worker agony, this is the sacrifice I am willing to make
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > this is the sacrifice I am willing to make That would probably be better phrased along the lines of, "that's a price I'm willing to make you pay." Basically make it crystal clear the person speaking is not the one making the sacrifice, but rather perverting the phraseology of self-sacrifice.
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
I think the way to have this cake and eat it too is to personally be an extraordinarily good cash tipper. You'll still be supporting the system, but you'll ameliorate your personal use of it.
- rlkf 4y ago
  Adding tips will probably just cause the business to lower the wages, making the workers more dependent on a semi-random stream of tips instead of a fixed income, making life worse for them. Restaurants now work like that, and workers are voting with their feet. No need to extend this to other industries.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    If it's a cash tip the app doesn't know it happened. It's not like restaurants. No manager is there to make everyone count up their tips at the end of the shift.

rideontime 4y ago

Would you be willing to pay enough for your "on-demand everything" to provide a living wage to those who enable it?

msmenardi 4y ago
The more you have to pay for it, the fewer people have access to "on-demand everything". Meaning it'll become a luxury of the richer side of the arbitrary cut-off line where ordering groceries or getting an Uber is financially feasible. The less these services cost, the better for all of us. The solution that solves that problem is to remove the infrastructure from the capitalist market - for example, by nationalizing UberEats or Amazon (although nationalization isn't the only option) Doing so would allow the business to continue as usual but the expenses that are external to each transaction would be offloaded to a third party (the government for example, or just written off) thus allowing the maximum amount of people to access the service at the lowest price.
JustSomeNobody 4y ago
As opposed to paying more in taxes to provide a social safety net for those individuals? 6 in one, half dozen in the other.
anonyfox 4y ago
Yes. Getting what you want when you want it does not necessarily mean cheap exploitation. We „only“ need to stop shareholders siphoning money and redirect that wealth back to the workers instead. Worst case the working class would have money to spend, maybe even for other convenience on-demand stuff, recursively. I would be willing to accept a few dozen billionaires being degraded to millionaires as the prize, when in doubt they can protest on the streets against that.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mixmastamyk 4y ago
Not long ago teens up to twenty or so did this kind of work. Fast food, pizza delivery, etc. The skills-required and profit margins for these jobs aren't the kind to support raising a family on. Everyone knew this and accepted it. Transitioning folks into skilled/good-paying jobs would be better than trying to make service jobs a desired destination.

yunwal 4y ago

> There is no way I ever will go back to doing some chores manually, like grocery shopping. Awesome, these companies can pay good wages to their workers and pass on the cost knowing they won’t lose you as a customer.

anonyfox 4y ago
Actually, yes. For example Edeka (German supermarket chain) increases prices when ordering significantly as well as adding a base fee for shipping. This roughly adds 30%-50% compared of buying the same things in the same store manually. Sure, it’s a luxury position to say that, but I happily pay that.
- yunwal 4y ago
  Genuinely, if workers are paid a living wage, this is great to hear. Sorry for being a cynical American :)

armchairhacker 4y ago

It seems like DoorDash, Uber etc. really are great jobs for people who have trouble getting more traditional jobs: people without prior skills or connections who just want an easy job, "want to be their own boss", don't want rigid structure, etc. As they were originally and still are marketed. They just need to be treated and payed better. The people using these services by design have money to spend, "outrageous" delivery tips and fees can be justified if the fees are actually going to the workers.