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It is actually a great choice for unopinionated server-side web development. Frontend development is simply awesome in ClojureScript. Give me Reagent + Shadow

It is actually a great choice for unopinionated server-side web development. Frontend development is simply awesome in ClojureScript. Give me Reagent + Shadow CLJS over plain React (or React Native) any day.

moonchrome 4y ago
>Frontend development is simply awesome in ClojureScript Is that still tied to that google closure abomination ? I've not been in CLJ ecosystem for >5 years now but last time I used CLJS I remember they went all in on google Closure and it was a major PITA to use the rest of JS ecosystem because of it. Every time I use React I think how it would be great to use Clojure for that, but last time I tried the tooling overhead just killed it for me.
- lgessler 4y ago
  > Is that still tied to that google closure abomination ? I've not been in CLJ ecosystem for >5 years now but last time I used CLJS I remember they went all in on google Closure and it was a major PITA to use the rest of JS ecosystem because of it. This has been solved now--there's a blessed CLJS solution[1][2] as well as a third-party compiler with NPM support[3] which many prefer. [1]: https://clojurescript.org/news/2017-07-12-clojurescript-is-not-an-island-integrating-node-modules https://clojurescript.org/news/2017-07-12-clojurescript-is-n... [2]: https://cljs.github.io/api/compiler-options/npm-deps https://cljs.github.io/api/compiler-options/npm-deps [3]: https://shadow-cljs.github.io/docs/UsersGuide.html#npm https://shadow-cljs.github.io/docs/UsersGuide.html#npm
- simongray 4y ago
  Shadow-cljs makes everything very easy these days.
ndr 4y ago
For you and anyone else with experience, is that the most common/battle-tested cljs stack? What about servers-side, any equivalent Django or FastAPI?
- dgb23 4y ago
  If you want a complete, integrated "stack" that stitches some of the most common libraries together in a uniform structure you might have a look at kit: https://kit-clj.github.io/ https://kit-clj.github.io/
  - cutler 4y ago
    If you're coming to Kit from Luminus make sure you understand Kit's use of Integrant which involves passing `query-fn` down from the route to every function which accesses SQL. It was a deal-breaker for me.
- dack 4y ago
  The cljs stack I hear about a lot (and use) is ShadowCLJS with reagent (https://reagent-project.github.io/ https://reagent-project.github.io/) and re-frame (https://day8.github.io/re-frame/ https://day8.github.io/re-frame/). ShadowCLJS is more of a build tool, but is really well documented and easy to use. Reagent is basically react but a simpler API, and re-frame is a layer on top of that kinda like redux. It's overkill for some apps but I find it's actually super easy to work with and not as much complexity as I thought. For backend there is luminus (https://luminusweb.com/ https://luminusweb.com/) or Kit (https://kit-clj.github.io/ https://kit-clj.github.io/). They are basically project templates that wire together a ton of popular solutions for various things - database access, migrations, security, html templating, etc. Also includes frontend frameworks like re-frame if you want. edit: forgot to mention fulcro (https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/ https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/) which is an interesting full stack solution. I haven't used it though so can't comment, but it sure seems documented well!
  - ndr 4y ago
    Thank you. What about leiningen vs boot vs deps.edn? Did any of this come ahead as a winner in the recent years? It's been a while since I've looked into this.
    - simongray 4y ago
pelasaco 4y ago
Yes, ClojureScript is definitely on my learning list, we however decided to avoid one more transpilation tool, and accepted the fact that we have to write typescript. > Give me Reagent + Shadow CLJS over plain React (or React Native) any day. So that is for heavy js based applications, not for something light like rails + stimulus.js, right?

moonchrome 4y ago

>Frontend development is simply awesome in ClojureScript Is that still tied to that google closure abomination ? I've not been in CLJ ecosystem for >5 years now but last time I used CLJS I remember they went all in on google Closure and it was a major PITA to use the rest of JS ecosystem because of it. Every time I use React I think how it would be great to use Clojure for that, but last time I tried the tooling overhead just killed it for me.

lgessler 4y ago
> Is that still tied to that google closure abomination ? I've not been in CLJ ecosystem for >5 years now but last time I used CLJS I remember they went all in on google Closure and it was a major PITA to use the rest of JS ecosystem because of it. This has been solved now--there's a blessed CLJS solution[1][2] as well as a third-party compiler with NPM support[3] which many prefer. [1]: https://clojurescript.org/news/2017-07-12-clojurescript-is-not-an-island-integrating-node-modules https://clojurescript.org/news/2017-07-12-clojurescript-is-n... [2]: https://cljs.github.io/api/compiler-options/npm-deps https://cljs.github.io/api/compiler-options/npm-deps [3]: https://shadow-cljs.github.io/docs/UsersGuide.html#npm https://shadow-cljs.github.io/docs/UsersGuide.html#npm
simongray 4y ago
Shadow-cljs makes everything very easy these days.

ndr 4y ago

For you and anyone else with experience, is that the most common/battle-tested cljs stack? What about servers-side, any equivalent Django or FastAPI?

dgb23 4y ago
If you want a complete, integrated "stack" that stitches some of the most common libraries together in a uniform structure you might have a look at kit: https://kit-clj.github.io/ https://kit-clj.github.io/
- cutler 4y ago
  If you're coming to Kit from Luminus make sure you understand Kit's use of Integrant which involves passing `query-fn` down from the route to every function which accesses SQL. It was a deal-breaker for me.
dack 4y ago
The cljs stack I hear about a lot (and use) is ShadowCLJS with reagent (https://reagent-project.github.io/ https://reagent-project.github.io/) and re-frame (https://day8.github.io/re-frame/ https://day8.github.io/re-frame/). ShadowCLJS is more of a build tool, but is really well documented and easy to use. Reagent is basically react but a simpler API, and re-frame is a layer on top of that kinda like redux. It's overkill for some apps but I find it's actually super easy to work with and not as much complexity as I thought. For backend there is luminus (https://luminusweb.com/ https://luminusweb.com/) or Kit (https://kit-clj.github.io/ https://kit-clj.github.io/). They are basically project templates that wire together a ton of popular solutions for various things - database access, migrations, security, html templating, etc. Also includes frontend frameworks like re-frame if you want. edit: forgot to mention fulcro (https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/ https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/) which is an interesting full stack solution. I haven't used it though so can't comment, but it sure seems documented well!
- ndr 4y ago
  Thank you. What about leiningen vs boot vs deps.edn? Did any of this come ahead as a winner in the recent years? It's been a while since I've looked into this.
  - simongray 4y ago

pelasaco 4y ago

Yes, ClojureScript is definitely on my learning list, we however decided to avoid one more transpilation tool, and accepted the fact that we have to write typescript. > Give me Reagent + Shadow CLJS over plain React (or React Native) any day. So that is for heavy js based applications, not for something light like rails + stimulus.js, right?