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I’m extremely picky - as long as my livelihood is not threatened and I actually have options. For me, being forced to use Windows, Teams, Skype, Java/Spring, or

I’m extremely picky - as long as my livelihood is not threatened and I actually have options. For me, being forced to use Windows, Teams, Skype, Java/Spring, or Jira (among others) would be a dealbreaker (again, unless that job might be among the few available to help me feed my family). I spent some time learning in the structured environment of a large company, which I recommend everyone do for a first and/or second job. Now, at this point in my career, I tend to gravitate toward smaller companies; my current company (less than 40 employees) ordered me a high-spec Framework Laptop (I put Fedora on it) and $900 ultra-wide monitor without hesitation. I believe I was the first dev at the company to ask about a Sublime license (in a Slack message), and within minutes I got an email from SublimeHQ with the license key. Of course, YMMV, but if you want and are ready for flexibility, you might do best by avoiding big companies - and even startups where leadership has intense personalities and overly-strong opinions.

kypro 4y ago
It's interesting you say this. I've always felt my flexibility was a strength and quite enjoy being asked to use new tools and software. To be honest I tend to look quite poorly on people unwilling to provide flexibility on the tools they work with. In my experience it can be quite disruptive when you have one highly opinionated team member who will refuse to work with a new tool because of a personal preference. I guess I'd get it if you were forced to use multiple tools you hated, but a single tool that isn't your preference? Can you not adapt at all? At this point in my career you could give me a Windows, Mac or Linux system and I literally couldn't care. But more importantly it would have almost no impact on my productivity. Same with using tools like Jira. I have preferences, but honestly whatever. Opinions like this remind me of people who can only speak English and don't see the need to learn other languages because "everyone speaks English anyway". Fair enough if that's how you feel, but I don't understand why it's something to be proud of.
- betaby 4y ago
  MS Teams is virtually never an engineering decisions it seems. That's not a C# vs Java debate or Visual Studio vs JetBrains - not even comparable. Your argument about flexibly is moot in the context.
- guhidalg 4y ago
  Before we lose ourselves in abstract generalities that don't mean anything, let's focus on the thread: communication applications. If you're comfortable working at a place that mandates Teams because it makes management's life easier, then you shouldn't have any problem adapting to new tools. You also shouldn't expect management to tolerate risky ventures; they have already signaled they do not tolerate non-compliant communication software. Therefore, you shouldn't have any problem doing the mediocre work that management expects out of you. That's ok! We all need to know where we stand in the risk/reward spectrum and using sub-optimal tools is a signal that you're operating in a low-risk environment. However if you are operating in a high-risk environment, like a startup, then you should be opinionated about everything because every decision influences your chances of success or failure. Using Teams instead of Slack may prevent you from hiring the talent that recognizes the signals of mediocrity.
  - kypro 4y ago
    I agree with this. I think we might be talking about different things? I was specifically referring to highly opinionated team members who refuse to work with anything but their preferred tools and software. I'm talking about the kind of people who refuse to use a Mac like everyone else on the team because they prefer Linux, or the kind of person who doesn't reply to their emails because they only use Slack. I find those people disruptive when the rest of the team agree to in work a certain way. You seem to be talking more about a company which is forcing its employees to adopt various tools they're not happy with and I think that's different – and I'd agree that's not a company I'd want to work for and something that should be pushed back on. But I don't think that's what the commenter I replied to was saying. The way I read their comment was that it didn't really matter if it was a top down decision from a manager or a team decision, if they couldn't use their preferred tools, they don't want to work there.
- boring_twenties 4y ago
  There's a wide space between a tool being "not your preference" and being painful and frustrating to use.
- ralmidani 4y ago
  I said I’m extremely picky, but the list of things I would be OK using is much longer than the list of things I would not work with unless circumstances forced me to. Maybe I should have also said I’ve learned and/or dabbled in/used Python, Ruby, C, C++, Java, JS (server-side and client-side), CoffeeScript, TypeScript, and Elixir. I currently have a strong preference for working with Elixir (and fortunately that’s what we use at my day job), and on the other hand would actively avoid a job that required more than a trivial amount of C++, Java, or server-side Node.js. I would be OK with the rest (and probably also Rust and Go, although I haven’t learned enough to be sure). For code hosting, I prefer GitLab and am OK with GitHub (for now at least). For tasks/issues I’m OK with Asana or GitHub and only avoid Jira. For IDEs I prefer Sublime but would be OK with whatever. For OSes, I prefer GNU/Linux, can live with MacOS for now (but the experience is degrading rapidly), and only really avoid Windows. I totally believe we should normalize devs having requirements for what kinds of jobs they will consider (including tech stack and tools, but also industry, company size, culture, location, etc). Especially if we’re OK with companies having wishlists which are often far longer and more rigid. Also, for what it’s worth, I speak/write English and Arabic natively, and have a genuine desire to learn Spanish, Kurdish, and Japanese.
  - eterps 4y ago
    Hi ralmidani, I recognize being picky like that with tech choices. My friend and I are developing a product to enhance the job search process. Especially for devs that want to be very specific on what tech they do and don't prefer to work with. May we ask you a couple of questions? I know you're not searching for a job (kudos on finding an Elixir job) but I think your input would be valuable.
    - ralmidani 4y ago
      Thanks for reaching out and for your kind words! I sent you a message on Keybase and requested connecting on LinkedIn. If you’re not active on either, my full name can be found here: https://github.com/ralmidani https://github.com/ralmidani Put a dot between the two parts of my name, take out the dash, and send to proton with .me at the end.

kypro 4y ago

It's interesting you say this. I've always felt my flexibility was a strength and quite enjoy being asked to use new tools and software. To be honest I tend to look quite poorly on people unwilling to provide flexibility on the tools they work with. In my experience it can be quite disruptive when you have one highly opinionated team member who will refuse to work with a new tool because of a personal preference. I guess I'd get it if you were forced to use multiple tools you hated, but a single tool that isn't your preference? Can you not adapt at all? At this point in my career you could give me a Windows, Mac or Linux system and I literally couldn't care. But more importantly it would have almost no impact on my productivity. Same with using tools like Jira. I have preferences, but honestly whatever. Opinions like this remind me of people who can only speak English and don't see the need to learn other languages because "everyone speaks English anyway". Fair enough if that's how you feel, but I don't understand why it's something to be proud of.

betaby 4y ago
MS Teams is virtually never an engineering decisions it seems. That's not a C# vs Java debate or Visual Studio vs JetBrains - not even comparable. Your argument about flexibly is moot in the context.
guhidalg 4y ago
Before we lose ourselves in abstract generalities that don't mean anything, let's focus on the thread: communication applications. If you're comfortable working at a place that mandates Teams because it makes management's life easier, then you shouldn't have any problem adapting to new tools. You also shouldn't expect management to tolerate risky ventures; they have already signaled they do not tolerate non-compliant communication software. Therefore, you shouldn't have any problem doing the mediocre work that management expects out of you. That's ok! We all need to know where we stand in the risk/reward spectrum and using sub-optimal tools is a signal that you're operating in a low-risk environment. However if you are operating in a high-risk environment, like a startup, then you should be opinionated about everything because every decision influences your chances of success or failure. Using Teams instead of Slack may prevent you from hiring the talent that recognizes the signals of mediocrity.
- kypro 4y ago
  I agree with this. I think we might be talking about different things? I was specifically referring to highly opinionated team members who refuse to work with anything but their preferred tools and software. I'm talking about the kind of people who refuse to use a Mac like everyone else on the team because they prefer Linux, or the kind of person who doesn't reply to their emails because they only use Slack. I find those people disruptive when the rest of the team agree to in work a certain way. You seem to be talking more about a company which is forcing its employees to adopt various tools they're not happy with and I think that's different – and I'd agree that's not a company I'd want to work for and something that should be pushed back on. But I don't think that's what the commenter I replied to was saying. The way I read their comment was that it didn't really matter if it was a top down decision from a manager or a team decision, if they couldn't use their preferred tools, they don't want to work there.
boring_twenties 4y ago
There's a wide space between a tool being "not your preference" and being painful and frustrating to use.
ralmidani 4y ago
I said I’m extremely picky, but the list of things I would be OK using is much longer than the list of things I would not work with unless circumstances forced me to. Maybe I should have also said I’ve learned and/or dabbled in/used Python, Ruby, C, C++, Java, JS (server-side and client-side), CoffeeScript, TypeScript, and Elixir. I currently have a strong preference for working with Elixir (and fortunately that’s what we use at my day job), and on the other hand would actively avoid a job that required more than a trivial amount of C++, Java, or server-side Node.js. I would be OK with the rest (and probably also Rust and Go, although I haven’t learned enough to be sure). For code hosting, I prefer GitLab and am OK with GitHub (for now at least). For tasks/issues I’m OK with Asana or GitHub and only avoid Jira. For IDEs I prefer Sublime but would be OK with whatever. For OSes, I prefer GNU/Linux, can live with MacOS for now (but the experience is degrading rapidly), and only really avoid Windows. I totally believe we should normalize devs having requirements for what kinds of jobs they will consider (including tech stack and tools, but also industry, company size, culture, location, etc). Especially if we’re OK with companies having wishlists which are often far longer and more rigid. Also, for what it’s worth, I speak/write English and Arabic natively, and have a genuine desire to learn Spanish, Kurdish, and Japanese.
- eterps 4y ago
  Hi ralmidani, I recognize being picky like that with tech choices. My friend and I are developing a product to enhance the job search process. Especially for devs that want to be very specific on what tech they do and don't prefer to work with. May we ask you a couple of questions? I know you're not searching for a job (kudos on finding an Elixir job) but I think your input would be valuable.
  - ralmidani 4y ago
    Thanks for reaching out and for your kind words! I sent you a message on Keybase and requested connecting on LinkedIn. If you’re not active on either, my full name can be found here: https://github.com/ralmidani https://github.com/ralmidani Put a dot between the two parts of my name, take out the dash, and send to proton with .me at the end.