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I have a very similar outlook. It's pretty clear to me that things are moving faster and faster in society and likely not towards anything very good. So it seem

I have a very similar outlook. It's pretty clear to me that things are moving faster and faster in society and likely not towards anything very good. So it seems naive to expect the old models to continue working. My "retirement plan" therefore is something between conventional wisdom and prepping. Put some money into savings for emergencies and the remaining possibility that stocks may have some growth in future, but diversify into self-reliance. Buying land and tools that can be used to live off at low cost (i.e. no rent, do my own maintenance, grow some of my food and fuel) and assume that I probably won't ever afford to retire but hopefully will afford to just be able to work less and less over time. Your last statement is certainly a good and humbling thing to remember. What's the point in amassing all this wealth anyway, since we certainly can't take any of it with us when we go. Giving your children the wealth of knowledge they will likely need in times to come is probably much more practical.

quacked 4y ago
I'm glad to hear you say that. There are a lot of people out there who are kind of thinking the same thing. The only thing I really worry about is that if the time does come and we really need to use our paltry reserves of food, land, ammunition, etc. whether or not we have the ability to do the real civilizational dirty work--forming strategic alliances, committing violence when necessary, avoiding starvation through back-breaking farming work that actually yields harvests, etc. Like, I've got some acreage, the skills to warm my old house through the winter on the woods, and enough knowledge to garden through the summer. But what about food in spring and fall? What if a band of 200 raiders from the city walks down the groomed road my driveway is off of and decides they want to live on my patch? And even if civilization doesn't fall, do you really "own" land when your ownership claims are validated by paid police and the people who don't own land not thinking to come and take your land? I wouldn't say civilization "fell" between 1900 and 1930, but surely those Russian landowners assumed they "owned" their land before the Bolsheviks started peacefully discussing their ideas with the Tsarist government. You start thinking about this stuff and realizing that these problems have been solved over and over again, since before writing. All of the stuff in history that seems so antiquated (like needing elaborate gift-giving rituals when meeting neighboring foreign nobility) suddenly seems clever and meaningful when it's juxtaposed against the context of starvation, enslavement, death by the plague, and no electricity.
- kiliantics 4y ago
  These outcomes are pretty extreme and therefore I think pretty unlikely. I think it's useful to consider but maybe harmful to expect them and prepare only for such events. One thing I also think is very important, maybe most important of all in regards to what you bring up, is to invest not only in things but to invest in people. Build a community of people around you that you can depend on and who can depend on you, a mutual aid network. Strong relationships are what's needed when state/societal or bureaucratically demanded relationships break down. But in a less extreme setting, like if you lose your job or have a tragedy or catastrophe in your life/community, having strong support among friends can be the difference between getting back on your feet or ending up homeless or otherwise worse off.

quacked 4y ago

I'm glad to hear you say that. There are a lot of people out there who are kind of thinking the same thing. The only thing I really worry about is that if the time does come and we really need to use our paltry reserves of food, land, ammunition, etc. whether or not we have the ability to do the real civilizational dirty work--forming strategic alliances, committing violence when necessary, avoiding starvation through back-breaking farming work that actually yields harvests, etc. Like, I've got some acreage, the skills to warm my old house through the winter on the woods, and enough knowledge to garden through the summer. But what about food in spring and fall? What if a band of 200 raiders from the city walks down the groomed road my driveway is off of and decides they want to live on my patch? And even if civilization doesn't fall, do you really "own" land when your ownership claims are validated by paid police and the people who don't own land not thinking to come and take your land? I wouldn't say civilization "fell" between 1900 and 1930, but surely those Russian landowners assumed they "owned" their land before the Bolsheviks started peacefully discussing their ideas with the Tsarist government. You start thinking about this stuff and realizing that these problems have been solved over and over again, since before writing. All of the stuff in history that seems so antiquated (like needing elaborate gift-giving rituals when meeting neighboring foreign nobility) suddenly seems clever and meaningful when it's juxtaposed against the context of starvation, enslavement, death by the plague, and no electricity.

kiliantics 4y ago
These outcomes are pretty extreme and therefore I think pretty unlikely. I think it's useful to consider but maybe harmful to expect them and prepare only for such events. One thing I also think is very important, maybe most important of all in regards to what you bring up, is to invest not only in things but to invest in people. Build a community of people around you that you can depend on and who can depend on you, a mutual aid network. Strong relationships are what's needed when state/societal or bureaucratically demanded relationships break down. But in a less extreme setting, like if you lose your job or have a tragedy or catastrophe in your life/community, having strong support among friends can be the difference between getting back on your feet or ending up homeless or otherwise worse off.