6 ms·

> So, is it time to fork the go codebase and have a telemetry-free version? Why is maintaining a fork and remembering to use it everywhere easier than just set

by growse 4y ago

> So, is it time to fork the go codebase and have a telemetry-free version? Why is maintaining a fork and remembering to use it everywhere easier than just setting an environment variable? > ... product because "everyone seems to be happy with it... No one turns it off anyway". How would they know who turns it off?

carapace 4y ago
> Why is maintaining a fork and remembering to use it everywhere easier than just setting an environment variable? 1) Presumably, you're just deleting a few bits of code here and there. 2) It's not going to stop at one lil ENV var, eh?
blibble 4y ago
20 years ago no software had telemetry (any reporting back was "spyware") in 20 years from now will I need 700 environment variables, one for nearly every piece of software on my machine? LS_TELEMETRY=off VI_TELEMETRY=off BASH_TELEMETRY=off CAT_TELEMETRY=off
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  You joke, but I already have a couple telemetry env variables in my env file because of various tools using them for opt-outs. It's infuriating.
- jefftk 4y ago
  There's a proposal for DO_NOT_TRACK=1 https://consoledonottrack.com https://consoledonottrack.com Unfortunately it's not been widely adopted. My guess is this is running into the same problem that DNT=1 in the browser did, which is that different people mean different things by "tracking" and it's very hard to come to agreement on where to draw the lines.
- WhyNotHugo 4y ago
  20 years from now? Try disabling all telemetry in Firefox.
- remram 4y ago
  AdBlock/PrivacyBadger for the shell. What a nightmare.
justinclift 4y ago
This hypothetical Go fork/distribution (with telemetry disabled by default), should have an option to send bogus telemetry data to the Google servers. :) So the occasional person that doesn't mind sending data to Google can leave it on, but enabled in that way instead.
- growse 4y ago
  Not quite sure what the logic of "I want to use this tool because it provides me value, but I also want to sabotage the development process of this tool" is meant to be.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    Quite simply to "Stick it to the man". If this group of dev's are going to violate the privacy of their Community members, they're asking for stuff like this. Maybe once they realise the telemetry they collect is utterly useless, they'll actually do the right thing and remove it.
  - bmacho 4y ago
    I luw<3 this tool so I help it to be better *-* :3 =^.^= Also can work as a general protesting against a harmful trend.
  - Yizahi 4y ago
    Sabotage of the specifically mass surveillance part of the development.
kgwxd 4y ago
To answer both questions: because the variables don’t always work. If the code doesn’t exist, it can’t run. It’s the only way. At the very least, it should be a compiler compiler flag and all code with telemetry should be in a separate library to make it easy to be sure no mistakes caused it to sneak it’s way in.
sophacles 4y ago
This argument is nonsense. Everywhere you have to remember to use the non tracking compiler and everywhere you have to remember to set the variable are at best the exact same set. More likely it's actually more places that require remembering to set the variable since various build environments and tools tend to strip out variables in all sorts of places. It also assumes setting the variable actually works - even without malicious intent, it's an approach that assumes there are never any bugs.
- growse 4y ago
  The fork is created out of thin air, and maintained invisibly, for free?
  - sophacles 4y ago
    We'll have to see the implementation of course, but it shouldn't be a huge effort to replace the telemtry reporting function with `return success`.
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      The complexity of the patch isn't the issue, it's keeping up-to-date with the upstream code. This can be done but it requires constant work, discipline, and it probably would need funding. But the worst part is that it sends the message that we as a community will tolerate megacorps injecting telemetry tracking into our compilers, and our response will be not only to stay in their ecosystem, but to do extra work for them to keep us there. That's not the the message I want Google to hear; I want them to hear us tell them where they can take their telemetry and shove it. We do that with our feet.

by growse 4y ago

carapace 4y ago

> Why is maintaining a fork and remembering to use it everywhere easier than just setting an environment variable? 1) Presumably, you're just deleting a few bits of code here and there. 2) It's not going to stop at one lil ENV var, eh?

blibble 4y ago

20 years ago no software had telemetry (any reporting back was "spyware") in 20 years from now will I need 700 environment variables, one for nearly every piece of software on my machine? LS_TELEMETRY=off VI_TELEMETRY=off BASH_TELEMETRY=off CAT_TELEMETRY=off

jeroenhd 4y ago
You joke, but I already have a couple telemetry env variables in my env file because of various tools using them for opt-outs. It's infuriating.
jefftk 4y ago
There's a proposal for DO_NOT_TRACK=1 https://consoledonottrack.com https://consoledonottrack.com Unfortunately it's not been widely adopted. My guess is this is running into the same problem that DNT=1 in the browser did, which is that different people mean different things by "tracking" and it's very hard to come to agreement on where to draw the lines.
WhyNotHugo 4y ago
20 years from now? Try disabling all telemetry in Firefox.
remram 4y ago
AdBlock/PrivacyBadger for the shell. What a nightmare.

justinclift 4y ago

This hypothetical Go fork/distribution (with telemetry disabled by default), should have an option to send bogus telemetry data to the Google servers. :) So the occasional person that doesn't mind sending data to Google can leave it on, but enabled in that way instead.

growse 4y ago
Not quite sure what the logic of "I want to use this tool because it provides me value, but I also want to sabotage the development process of this tool" is meant to be.
- justinclift 4y ago
  Quite simply to "Stick it to the man". If this group of dev's are going to violate the privacy of their Community members, they're asking for stuff like this. Maybe once they realise the telemetry they collect is utterly useless, they'll actually do the right thing and remove it.
- bmacho 4y ago
  I luw<3 this tool so I help it to be better *-* :3 =^.^= Also can work as a general protesting against a harmful trend.
- Yizahi 4y ago
  Sabotage of the specifically mass surveillance part of the development.

kgwxd 4y ago

To answer both questions: because the variables don’t always work. If the code doesn’t exist, it can’t run. It’s the only way. At the very least, it should be a compiler compiler flag and all code with telemetry should be in a separate library to make it easy to be sure no mistakes caused it to sneak it’s way in.

sophacles 4y ago

This argument is nonsense. Everywhere you have to remember to use the non tracking compiler and everywhere you have to remember to set the variable are at best the exact same set. More likely it's actually more places that require remembering to set the variable since various build environments and tools tend to strip out variables in all sorts of places. It also assumes setting the variable actually works - even without malicious intent, it's an approach that assumes there are never any bugs.

growse 4y ago
The fork is created out of thin air, and maintained invisibly, for free?
- sophacles 4y ago
  We'll have to see the implementation of course, but it shouldn't be a huge effort to replace the telemtry reporting function with `return success`.
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    The complexity of the patch isn't the issue, it's keeping up-to-date with the upstream code. This can be done but it requires constant work, discipline, and it probably would need funding. But the worst part is that it sends the message that we as a community will tolerate megacorps injecting telemetry tracking into our compilers, and our response will be not only to stay in their ecosystem, but to do extra work for them to keep us there. That's not the the message I want Google to hear; I want them to hear us tell them where they can take their telemetry and shove it. We do that with our feet.