4 ms·

In my mind, when people say "lads","guys" or "mankind", I just think "people". Does anyone really think they're litterally talking about men only? I feel like t

In my mind, when people say "lads","guys" or "mankind", I just think "people". Does anyone really think they're litterally talking about men only? I feel like this kind of comment is just used to dismiss people.

matthewmacleod 4y ago
I feel like this kind of comment is exactly the problem, isn’t it? From what you’ve said - in your mind, addressing a group of people as “lads” makes no comment on their gender. Some people will definitely agree with that and not be bothered at all. But I don’t find it even slightly hard to imagine that if I were a woman in a group being addressed as “lads” that I might kinda bristle at at, as I know some people do. It’s just weird to me that anybody’s first reaction to this sort of thing would be to double-down on “actually guys is gender-neutral” instead of just thinking “good point” and making a mental note for the future.
super256 4y ago
I thought this too, but apparently there is a whole palette of female versions for dude, guy, lad etc. [1]. I only heard “gals” before, never lasses or dudeens. And the “gals” also only occurred in spoken form, I’ve never read it anywhere (although I consume a lot of english media). Maybe it’s because I’m not a native speaker. In Germany we have a huge gap between daily/ business communication and the communication from authorities. The latter don’t write „Sehr geehrte Studenten“, but „Sehr geehrte Student:innen“, so I suspect something similar is happening here too. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad
foldr 4y ago
That’s why a “lads’ mag” is a magazine aimed at all genders, right? Not sure if you are British, but ‘lads’ has a much stronger gender connotation than ‘guys’ etc. There’s also a female counterpart of the word (lass).
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  American English speaker here. At least in the region where I live, "lads" is definitely gendered (plus uncommon and old-fashioned sounding and, applied to adults, a bit insulting), but "guys" isn't—which leads to friction when we interact with people from areas where, I gather, "guys" remains strongly gendered.
RobotToaster 4y ago
>I feel like this kind of comment is just used to dismiss people. Almost certainly, these people hate working class language, but they can't say that out loud, so hide it behind false pretexts.
- foldr 4y ago
  There’s not really anything to stop me saying ‘out loud’ on HN that I don’t like working class people, if that were something I wanted to say. In fact I think it would be rather less likely to get me downvoted than posting in support of gender inclusive language :) I’d be intrigued to know who ‘these people’ are, though, as I am apparently one of them.

matthewmacleod 4y ago

I feel like this kind of comment is exactly the problem, isn’t it? From what you’ve said - in your mind, addressing a group of people as “lads” makes no comment on their gender. Some people will definitely agree with that and not be bothered at all. But I don’t find it even slightly hard to imagine that if I were a woman in a group being addressed as “lads” that I might kinda bristle at at, as I know some people do. It’s just weird to me that anybody’s first reaction to this sort of thing would be to double-down on “actually guys is gender-neutral” instead of just thinking “good point” and making a mental note for the future.

super256 4y ago

I thought this too, but apparently there is a whole palette of female versions for dude, guy, lad etc. [1]. I only heard “gals” before, never lasses or dudeens. And the “gals” also only occurred in spoken form, I’ve never read it anywhere (although I consume a lot of english media). Maybe it’s because I’m not a native speaker. In Germany we have a huge gap between daily/ business communication and the communication from authorities. The latter don’t write „Sehr geehrte Studenten“, but „Sehr geehrte Student:innen“, so I suspect something similar is happening here too. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad

foldr 4y ago

That’s why a “lads’ mag” is a magazine aimed at all genders, right? Not sure if you are British, but ‘lads’ has a much stronger gender connotation than ‘guys’ etc. There’s also a female counterpart of the word (lass).

yamtaddle 4y ago
American English speaker here. At least in the region where I live, "lads" is definitely gendered (plus uncommon and old-fashioned sounding and, applied to adults, a bit insulting), but "guys" isn't—which leads to friction when we interact with people from areas where, I gather, "guys" remains strongly gendered.

RobotToaster 4y ago

>I feel like this kind of comment is just used to dismiss people. Almost certainly, these people hate working class language, but they can't say that out loud, so hide it behind false pretexts.

foldr 4y ago
There’s not really anything to stop me saying ‘out loud’ on HN that I don’t like working class people, if that were something I wanted to say. In fact I think it would be rather less likely to get me downvoted than posting in support of gender inclusive language :) I’d be intrigued to know who ‘these people’ are, though, as I am apparently one of them.