4 ms·

You seem way too invested into 1. a programming language 2. the telemetry proposal I like Go, I would never use the words "hopes and dreams" to refer to it (

by jstx1 4y ago

You seem way too invested into 1. a programming language 2. the telemetry proposal I like Go, I would never use the words "hopes and dreams" to refer to it (or any other language). And the telemetry proposal isn't as apocalyptic as you're making it out to be either. Why the drama. This seems more like a personal emotional regulation problem than anything else.

uberman 4y ago
While I agree that the reaction is overstated, I can't help but feel that the core dissatisfaction is valid. Introducing telemetry is not (contrary to the claims of Google) naturally part of open source development. Perhaps it is naturally part of anything Google develops (most of which I believe they misinterpret as justification for cancelling hundreds of projects). Apparently it is not enough that my phone, tv, workstation, and car monitor me day in day out and that I have to take active steps to (try to?) stop many of my other appliances and just about every "app" from doing the same. Now I need to throw in my IDE and my compiler? Though overstated, I can't help but empathize with their point of view.
- morelisp 4y ago
  I don't like the telemetry. I don't think they should add it, I will be disabling it, and recommending the rest of my team disable it. However > Introducing telemetry is not (contrary to the claims of Google) naturally part of open source development. Google is not wrong here. Many large "open source" projects include either forced-choice or opt-out telemetry. This includes "consumer" software like Ubuntu and Firefox, development tools like Arduino, and "backend" software like OPA. It's reasonable not to like it, but it's not reasonable to single out Google here. It is a long-term cost of turning so much development over to corporations and foundations.
  - uberman 4y ago
    The quote from Cox is "open-source software projects need to explore new telemetry designs that help developers get the information they need to work efficiently and effectively" which does not mention project size. https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409 https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409 I'm guessing he implicitly means "larger open source projects" but his statement reads like an imperative that naturally asserts that telemetry be part of any open source project. It was not long ago that people here had kittens because MS was adding telemetry to VSCode. My personal belief is we are far to subject to tracking as it is and there seems to be little justification to adding it to the go command line tools. At least in my opinion.
    - morelisp 4y ago
      > It was not long ago that people here had kittens because MS was adding telemetry to VSCode. As far as I know VS Code never didn't have telemetry, and it was always opt-out. (E.g. comment from December 15th about the telemetry - https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1... - VS Code was only 8 months old.) Atom had forced-choice telemetry (unsure of the default) also since first release. It sucks a lot! But you won't have any luck pushing back on it by appealing to norms.
heywhatupboys 4y ago
wait, this post isn't satire??

by jstx1 4y ago

uberman 4y ago

While I agree that the reaction is overstated, I can't help but feel that the core dissatisfaction is valid. Introducing telemetry is not (contrary to the claims of Google) naturally part of open source development. Perhaps it is naturally part of anything Google develops (most of which I believe they misinterpret as justification for cancelling hundreds of projects). Apparently it is not enough that my phone, tv, workstation, and car monitor me day in day out and that I have to take active steps to (try to?) stop many of my other appliances and just about every "app" from doing the same. Now I need to throw in my IDE and my compiler? Though overstated, I can't help but empathize with their point of view.

morelisp 4y ago
I don't like the telemetry. I don't think they should add it, I will be disabling it, and recommending the rest of my team disable it. However > Introducing telemetry is not (contrary to the claims of Google) naturally part of open source development. Google is not wrong here. Many large "open source" projects include either forced-choice or opt-out telemetry. This includes "consumer" software like Ubuntu and Firefox, development tools like Arduino, and "backend" software like OPA. It's reasonable not to like it, but it's not reasonable to single out Google here. It is a long-term cost of turning so much development over to corporations and foundations.
- uberman 4y ago
  The quote from Cox is "open-source software projects need to explore new telemetry designs that help developers get the information they need to work efficiently and effectively" which does not mention project size. https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409 https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409 I'm guessing he implicitly means "larger open source projects" but his statement reads like an imperative that naturally asserts that telemetry be part of any open source project. It was not long ago that people here had kittens because MS was adding telemetry to VSCode. My personal belief is we are far to subject to tracking as it is and there seems to be little justification to adding it to the go command line tools. At least in my opinion.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    > It was not long ago that people here had kittens because MS was adding telemetry to VSCode. As far as I know VS Code never didn't have telemetry, and it was always opt-out. (E.g. comment from December 15th about the telemetry - https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1... - VS Code was only 8 months old.) Atom had forced-choice telemetry (unsure of the default) also since first release. It sucks a lot! But you won't have any luck pushing back on it by appealing to norms.

heywhatupboys 4y ago

wait, this post isn't satire??