3 ms·

> Isn't this .. the spreadsheet? You nailed it, it's a spreadsheet - but one that doesn't constraint all data to live on the same application window, but could

> Isn't this .. the spreadsheet? You nailed it, it's a spreadsheet - but one that doesn't constraint all data to live on the same application window, but could access and transform it throughout the whole system - just like copy/paste can transfer data from one program to another, where it can be transformed with a different toolset. Copy/paste is the most fundamental tool in the toolbox of the end user, since it's the only universal* way to transfer data between apps without accessing an API programmatically, so I think it's undeservedly neglected as a tool to build real life practical workflows. Incidentally, spreadsheets are one of the most versatile and successful End-User Development tools, allowing users to build information systems tailored to their business purposes. A system combining those design capabilities with the flexibility of building system-wide workflows could transcend the current model of siloed apps. * Intents on mobile devices are similar, but they are not universal - many times the app to which you want to transfer data is not recognized as a valid target for the shared data.

the_other 4y ago
The Unix pipe seems like scriptable copy & paste.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  It's not, because you can't easily spawn transient pipes between running processes. The OS probably allows this, but I've never seen it exposed in the UI layer. Pipes are primarily used to build ad-hoc pipelines that run in batch mode. Copy&paste is a tool for moving specific bits of data on demand between two running programs, or within the same program. Copy&paste interaction model is "please take this and put it there", and the ability to select the this and the there is just as important as transferring the data itself.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    > can't easily spawn transient pipes between running processes. Yeah, while this is theoretically possible it's unmanageable in practice (the "washing line" protocol allows you to send a UNIX pipe file descriptor to another process over a socket). I suspect the nearest thing that made it into production was OLE.
    - TuringTest 4y ago
      I'd say the closest thing in modern systems would be the Stream metaphor (a.k.a. Observer design pattern) in functional reactive programming. This is the construct used to program the spreadsheet's reactive behavior, after all. You could think of users creating spreadsheet formulas as declaring a pipeline at runtime between two datasets, the origin range and the target range. What is missing is a way to create "spreadsheet functions" among different applications. Online computational notebooks a la Jupyter are almost there, but they still need to share the same runtime kernel to transfer data between different books. A combination of notebooks and web hooks should do the trick, methinks, but it needs someone to assemble this brittle system into a robust product.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    it's one of the next thing in computing IMO
  - Izkata 4y ago
    Maybe by manipulating /proc/12345/fd/* ? Can these be manipulated or are they read-only?

the_other 4y ago

The Unix pipe seems like scriptable copy & paste.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
It's not, because you can't easily spawn transient pipes between running processes. The OS probably allows this, but I've never seen it exposed in the UI layer. Pipes are primarily used to build ad-hoc pipelines that run in batch mode. Copy&paste is a tool for moving specific bits of data on demand between two running programs, or within the same program. Copy&paste interaction model is "please take this and put it there", and the ability to select the this and the there is just as important as transferring the data itself.
- pjc50 4y ago
  > can't easily spawn transient pipes between running processes. Yeah, while this is theoretically possible it's unmanageable in practice (the "washing line" protocol allows you to send a UNIX pipe file descriptor to another process over a socket). I suspect the nearest thing that made it into production was OLE.
  - TuringTest 4y ago
    I'd say the closest thing in modern systems would be the Stream metaphor (a.k.a. Observer design pattern) in functional reactive programming. This is the construct used to program the spreadsheet's reactive behavior, after all. You could think of users creating spreadsheet formulas as declaring a pipeline at runtime between two datasets, the origin range and the target range. What is missing is a way to create "spreadsheet functions" among different applications. Online computational notebooks a la Jupyter are almost there, but they still need to share the same runtime kernel to transfer data between different books. A combination of notebooks and web hooks should do the trick, methinks, but it needs someone to assemble this brittle system into a robust product.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  it's one of the next thing in computing IMO
- Izkata 4y ago
  Maybe by manipulating /proc/12345/fd/* ? Can these be manipulated or are they read-only?