5 ms·

> A so-called “blackout” is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to p

by bitops 15y ago

> A so-called “blackout” is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals. This statement, in my eyes, shows just how ridiculous the whole thing is. Regardless of your political leanings, I think most folks in the US right now agree that Congress is doing a pretty shoddy job of representing the people's interests. It's basically a joke, on both sides of the aisle at the moment, when politicians claim to be doing what's best for the public. There are a lot of things that go right every day, and we don't hear about them, which is unfortunate. But the things that politicians are beating their chests over right now are so obviously in the interests of lobbying groups and "big money" that it's ridiculous. Lady Gaga might lose money to piracy, but she is hardly a starving artist. And those artists that are usually are happy to get ANY kind of exposure, even if it's through piracy. Also, and this is lost sometimes in the debate, piracy is responsible for the spread of a lot of ideas. And almost everyone does it at some point in their life. Even Lars Ulrich from Metallica - he and James bonded while Lars was at James's house, ripping LPs to tape. Times have not changed much.

nitrogen 15y ago
Most people are dissatisfied with Congress, but I suspect that if you asked them to compare America to anywhere else in the world, they'd immediately jump to America's defense. My favorite line I've heard from some of my friends: "Our system may not be perfect, but it's the best we've got."
- bitops 15y ago
  Absolutely, I'm in the same boat. The reason it's so upsetting is precisely for the reasons you state. I (perhaps foolishly?) believe that America has the opportunity to be a role model for the rest of the world in terms of how a society can work. America has its problems. I will be the first to agree with that. But for all its problems, America has a lot going for it. It's a relatively free society, there is social mobility (more for some than others, it's true) and it's a nice place to live, even just in terms of its geography. (I live in California and so that of course will make me biased). Consider - America is a country that, despite all its problems, people risk their lives to get into. There's a simple reason why America continues to attract illegal immigrants - it's better than wherever they came from. So much so that they'll pay sleazy people to transport them across borders under the cover of night. It sounds dramatic, but that's because it is! So - America is great and I'd personally like it to stay that way. That's why it's the responsibility of the people living in America to keep their backyard clean and their politicians in line.
  - mayanksinghal 15y ago
    > "attract illegal immigrants - it's better than wherever they came from" I am not a US citizen, all I know about US is from TV, Movies and the web. But this is not a proof that US is a great place to live in. It just means that the neighbouring countries have far worse living conditions. I harder test would be if the more fortunate, richer class of people who are already comfortable with their living standards in their respective countries, choose to move to US because they cannot add to their level of satisfaction otherwise.
    - bitops 15y ago
      I am not a US citizen either though I live here. (I'm a permanent resident, intent on becoming a citizen, as I like this country a great deal). > this is not a proof that US is a great place to live in. It just means that the neighbouring countries have far worse living conditions. In my book, that means the US is better than those places. True, it doesn't make it great. But there are many other places in the world with good living standards and yet the US is where people try to come. > I harder test would be if the more fortunate, richer class of people who are already comfortable with their living standards in their respective countries, choose to move to US because they cannot add to their level of satisfaction otherwise. This is actually my own case. My parents left a very comfortable life in Western Europe to go to the US and try and make things better. My stepdad was doing a startup back in the late 90's and it was much easier to get funding here. Americans are risk takers, which is why so much innovation comes out of this country. There's a reason why the Apples, Googles, and Intels of the world are located in the US, and it's much more than economic.
      - danssig 15y ago
        >and yet the US is where people try to come. You don't see the people flooding into France? Italy? Switzerland? Germany? The UK? The US is good at one thing though: advertising.
      - krzyk 15y ago
        There is a reason that most of emplyees of Apples, Googles and Intels of the world are located outside of US :)
- Nick_C 15y ago
  I suspect you're talking in generalities, but from an outside perspective the US is far from best practice. Three things that you could implement that other democracies already have: - electoral boundaries are controlled by a statutory independent body, not the government. - voting and counting are controlled and supervised by a statutory independent body, not the government. The Bush-Florida mess could not have happened here. - all political donations over a trivial amount, say $5000, must be reported. As well, Ministers cannot take jobs in their portfolio's area for some period of time, from memory it is 5 years, after leaving politics.
  - bitops 15y ago
    All fair points with which I agree. Again, the US could get better, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad now. (I, like many, have days where I feel the US is going to hell in a handbasket). But I agree with the things you've pointed out.
  - nitrogen 15y ago
    I think our (the US) government has a lot to say against it. But America's not great because of its government, it's great in spite of it. America is great because of our culture of risk taking and experimentation, a culture that we are slowly losing to increasingly mind-numbing entertainment (which, I admit, is quite addicting) and restrictive legislation.
  - CWuestefeld 15y ago
    I agree with your first point; gerrymandering is the cause of a lot of our problems, I believe. But a 3rd party would be just as susceptible to tampering. I think a better approach is to define an algorithm for setting boundaries: something like "minimal border perimeter of districts, starting from the northwest corner of the state". But we might need to find a way to avoid breaking up cities between districts, that makes it a lot more complicated. Your proposal would not have saved the Bush/Gore election mess. The big controversy there wasn't over the recounting, but in the way that State laws governing the counts would be enforced, in the context of the 14th and 15th Amendments. Any legislation you propose would probably fall afoul of the same problems. In any case, I believe that actual voting and counting is a very minor issue today in America. And your third suggestion is already in force. Political donations must be reported today.
lolcraft 15y ago
Not to mention the sheer bigotry of blaming piracy on "foreign criminals", which makes this the pure nuts. Is the average US pirate kind of tanned, has a really tacky foreign accent, or conveys in any other way a vaguely menacing ethnicity?
- patrickk 15y ago
  " Is the average US pirate kind of tanned, has a really tacky foreign accent, or conveys in any other way a vaguely menacing ethnicity?" You forgot to mention the parrot on the shoulder and the peg-leg...and the gratuitous usage of Google Pirate: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-pirate http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-pirate
- endersshadow 15y ago
  That part is actually relevant to the bill. SOPA's intended purpose is to close the foreign loophole that the DMCA leaves open, in that there's no recourse for a US holder of copyright to stop a foreign-owned/operated site (a la Pirate Bay) from giving pirated content to US users. So "foreign criminals" is actually what we're talking about, here. There's a lot of other things you could pick up on, but xenophobia probably isn't the best tact to take.

by bitops 15y ago

nitrogen 15y ago

Most people are dissatisfied with Congress, but I suspect that if you asked them to compare America to anywhere else in the world, they'd immediately jump to America's defense. My favorite line I've heard from some of my friends: "Our system may not be perfect, but it's the best we've got."

bitops 15y ago
Absolutely, I'm in the same boat. The reason it's so upsetting is precisely for the reasons you state. I (perhaps foolishly?) believe that America has the opportunity to be a role model for the rest of the world in terms of how a society can work. America has its problems. I will be the first to agree with that. But for all its problems, America has a lot going for it. It's a relatively free society, there is social mobility (more for some than others, it's true) and it's a nice place to live, even just in terms of its geography. (I live in California and so that of course will make me biased). Consider - America is a country that, despite all its problems, people risk their lives to get into. There's a simple reason why America continues to attract illegal immigrants - it's better than wherever they came from. So much so that they'll pay sleazy people to transport them across borders under the cover of night. It sounds dramatic, but that's because it is! So - America is great and I'd personally like it to stay that way. That's why it's the responsibility of the people living in America to keep their backyard clean and their politicians in line.
- mayanksinghal 15y ago
  > "attract illegal immigrants - it's better than wherever they came from" I am not a US citizen, all I know about US is from TV, Movies and the web. But this is not a proof that US is a great place to live in. It just means that the neighbouring countries have far worse living conditions. I harder test would be if the more fortunate, richer class of people who are already comfortable with their living standards in their respective countries, choose to move to US because they cannot add to their level of satisfaction otherwise.
  - bitops 15y ago
    I am not a US citizen either though I live here. (I'm a permanent resident, intent on becoming a citizen, as I like this country a great deal). > this is not a proof that US is a great place to live in. It just means that the neighbouring countries have far worse living conditions. In my book, that means the US is better than those places. True, it doesn't make it great. But there are many other places in the world with good living standards and yet the US is where people try to come. > I harder test would be if the more fortunate, richer class of people who are already comfortable with their living standards in their respective countries, choose to move to US because they cannot add to their level of satisfaction otherwise. This is actually my own case. My parents left a very comfortable life in Western Europe to go to the US and try and make things better. My stepdad was doing a startup back in the late 90's and it was much easier to get funding here. Americans are risk takers, which is why so much innovation comes out of this country. There's a reason why the Apples, Googles, and Intels of the world are located in the US, and it's much more than economic.
    - danssig 15y ago
      >and yet the US is where people try to come. You don't see the people flooding into France? Italy? Switzerland? Germany? The UK? The US is good at one thing though: advertising.
    - krzyk 15y ago
      There is a reason that most of emplyees of Apples, Googles and Intels of the world are located outside of US :)
Nick_C 15y ago
I suspect you're talking in generalities, but from an outside perspective the US is far from best practice. Three things that you could implement that other democracies already have: - electoral boundaries are controlled by a statutory independent body, not the government. - voting and counting are controlled and supervised by a statutory independent body, not the government. The Bush-Florida mess could not have happened here. - all political donations over a trivial amount, say $5000, must be reported. As well, Ministers cannot take jobs in their portfolio's area for some period of time, from memory it is 5 years, after leaving politics.
- bitops 15y ago
  All fair points with which I agree. Again, the US could get better, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad now. (I, like many, have days where I feel the US is going to hell in a handbasket). But I agree with the things you've pointed out.
- nitrogen 15y ago
  I think our (the US) government has a lot to say against it. But America's not great because of its government, it's great in spite of it. America is great because of our culture of risk taking and experimentation, a culture that we are slowly losing to increasingly mind-numbing entertainment (which, I admit, is quite addicting) and restrictive legislation.
- CWuestefeld 15y ago
  I agree with your first point; gerrymandering is the cause of a lot of our problems, I believe. But a 3rd party would be just as susceptible to tampering. I think a better approach is to define an algorithm for setting boundaries: something like "minimal border perimeter of districts, starting from the northwest corner of the state". But we might need to find a way to avoid breaking up cities between districts, that makes it a lot more complicated. Your proposal would not have saved the Bush/Gore election mess. The big controversy there wasn't over the recounting, but in the way that State laws governing the counts would be enforced, in the context of the 14th and 15th Amendments. Any legislation you propose would probably fall afoul of the same problems. In any case, I believe that actual voting and counting is a very minor issue today in America. And your third suggestion is already in force. Political donations must be reported today.

lolcraft 15y ago

Not to mention the sheer bigotry of blaming piracy on "foreign criminals", which makes this the pure nuts. Is the average US pirate kind of tanned, has a really tacky foreign accent, or conveys in any other way a vaguely menacing ethnicity?

patrickk 15y ago
" Is the average US pirate kind of tanned, has a really tacky foreign accent, or conveys in any other way a vaguely menacing ethnicity?" You forgot to mention the parrot on the shoulder and the peg-leg...and the gratuitous usage of Google Pirate: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-pirate http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-pirate
endersshadow 15y ago
That part is actually relevant to the bill. SOPA's intended purpose is to close the foreign loophole that the DMCA leaves open, in that there's no recourse for a US holder of copyright to stop a foreign-owned/operated site (a la Pirate Bay) from giving pirated content to US users. So "foreign criminals" is actually what we're talking about, here. There's a lot of other things you could pick up on, but xenophobia probably isn't the best tact to take.