5 ms·

Something that puzzles me is how you specifically target China with a satellite. They can't be geostationary unless they're over the equator.

ethanbond 4y ago
Lots and lots of satellites that keep passing overhead and you compose the images to abstract away the fact they came from multiple physical satellites. Idk how many companies/govs have this capability but: https://www.palantir.com/offerings/metaconstellation/ https://www.palantir.com/offerings/metaconstellation/
- tomrod 4y ago
  Planet.com. Maxar. Etc. CubeSats are cheap and effective.
- bboygravity 4y ago
  There's only one company with that capability and that's the only organization in the world ever to achieve first stage (and soon all stage) reusability for LEO launches. Because to achieve that you need to put a lot of stuff in orbit and the only way to affordably do that is cheap (reusable) launches.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    I don't believe that's true. There are quite a few companies with tons of satellites in space. Walmart put up an array in 1987.
  - sgt101 4y ago
    The technical change is that you can build very useful, very small sats, which are cheap. Current SpaceX launch costs are lower, but like 1/2 price and 2x is not a big premium for a national security need.
    - georgeg23 4y ago
      10x cost for Falcon 9 (actual internal cost) and 100x less for Starship when available..
- georgeg23 4y ago
  Interesting that Palantir video shows SpaceX dragon as an example of "integrating with existing satellites". Plantir's Thiel and Elon go way back...
  - tough 4y ago
    They don't call it the Paypal Mafia just cause
    - georgeg23 4y ago
      Pretty clear this guy is a key player in their mafia https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career
      - CPLX 4y ago
        > In 2002, Griffin was President and COO of In-Q-Tel, a private enterprise funded by the CIA to identify and invest in companies developing cutting-edge technologies that serve national security interests. During this time, he met entrepreneur Elon Musk and accompanied him on a trip to Russia where they attempted to purchase ICBMs. They did what now?
        they4kman 4y ago
        Yeah, so the lore goes, Musk just wanted to send humans to Mars, and had no intention, originally, to build his own rockets. The first tactic was to retool an ICBM for spacier spaceflight, but the Russians laughed them out of the country.
        paranoidrobot 4y ago
        It was a simpler goal than that. From the first paragraph or two of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_SpaceX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_SpaceX > In August 2001, Musk shared a plenary talk with Mike Griffin at the fourth Mars Society convention where he announced his plans to send his greenhouse to Mars.[6] In October 2001, Musk travelled to Moscow with Jim Cantrell and Adeo Ressi to buy refurbished Dnepr ICBMs that could send the envisioned payloads into space.[7]
- Redoubts 4y ago
  But then it’s hard to claim that such a system is targeting any one specific place.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Well, it’s certainly easy to claim that
    - Redoubts 4y ago
      *credibly :)
Rebelgecko 4y ago
First off, I don't buy the underlying premise because the US has been launching satellites with global coverage for 50 years... I don't see why China would wait until now to respond. But for your question, with LEO satellites you don't really target specific countries. They cover every country within a given latitude range. A round LEO orbit that goes over the US must also go over China. However you don't need geostationary orbits to target a given part of the globe. Molniya orbits do the same thing more or less and work better if you want coverage further away from the equator. They were popularized by the USSR and the US and China use them to varying extents.
- analog31 4y ago
  I had to look it up. It must have taken some impressive math work to invent that orbit in the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
- georgeg23 4y ago
  The SDA satellites are barely skimming Earth's atmosphere and may eventually take a more "active" role intercepting missiles and even targeting the ground, at least that's according to the SDA program's founder, https://breakingdefense.com/2018/08/space-based-missile-defense-is-doable-dod-rd-chief-griffin/ https://breakingdefense.com/2018/08/space-based-missile-defe...
enkid 4y ago
They're targeting Chinese capabilities, not Chinese geography.
- analog31 4y ago
  Sure, we're targeting Chinese capabilities that happen to be hovering over US geography.
LarryMullins 4y ago
It can be done with highly eccentric and inclined geo-syncronized (not geostationary) orbits. For instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Zenith_Satellite_System#/media/File:Qzss-01-120s2.gif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Zenith_Satellite_System#...

ethanbond 4y ago

Lots and lots of satellites that keep passing overhead and you compose the images to abstract away the fact they came from multiple physical satellites. Idk how many companies/govs have this capability but: https://www.palantir.com/offerings/metaconstellation/ https://www.palantir.com/offerings/metaconstellation/

tomrod 4y ago
Planet.com. Maxar. Etc. CubeSats are cheap and effective.
bboygravity 4y ago
There's only one company with that capability and that's the only organization in the world ever to achieve first stage (and soon all stage) reusability for LEO launches. Because to achieve that you need to put a lot of stuff in orbit and the only way to affordably do that is cheap (reusable) launches.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  I don't believe that's true. There are quite a few companies with tons of satellites in space. Walmart put up an array in 1987.
- sgt101 4y ago
  The technical change is that you can build very useful, very small sats, which are cheap. Current SpaceX launch costs are lower, but like 1/2 price and 2x is not a big premium for a national security need.
  - georgeg23 4y ago
    10x cost for Falcon 9 (actual internal cost) and 100x less for Starship when available..
georgeg23 4y ago
Interesting that Palantir video shows SpaceX dragon as an example of "integrating with existing satellites". Plantir's Thiel and Elon go way back...
- tough 4y ago
  They don't call it the Paypal Mafia just cause
  - georgeg23 4y ago
    Pretty clear this guy is a key player in their mafia https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career
    - CPLX 4y ago
      > In 2002, Griffin was President and COO of In-Q-Tel, a private enterprise funded by the CIA to identify and invest in companies developing cutting-edge technologies that serve national security interests. During this time, he met entrepreneur Elon Musk and accompanied him on a trip to Russia where they attempted to purchase ICBMs. They did what now?
      - they4kman 4y ago
        Yeah, so the lore goes, Musk just wanted to send humans to Mars, and had no intention, originally, to build his own rockets. The first tactic was to retool an ICBM for spacier spaceflight, but the Russians laughed them out of the country.
        paranoidrobot 4y ago
        It was a simpler goal than that. From the first paragraph or two of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_SpaceX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_SpaceX > In August 2001, Musk shared a plenary talk with Mike Griffin at the fourth Mars Society convention where he announced his plans to send his greenhouse to Mars.[6] In October 2001, Musk travelled to Moscow with Jim Cantrell and Adeo Ressi to buy refurbished Dnepr ICBMs that could send the envisioned payloads into space.[7]
Redoubts 4y ago
But then it’s hard to claim that such a system is targeting any one specific place.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Well, it’s certainly easy to claim that
  - Redoubts 4y ago
    *credibly :)

Rebelgecko 4y ago

First off, I don't buy the underlying premise because the US has been launching satellites with global coverage for 50 years... I don't see why China would wait until now to respond. But for your question, with LEO satellites you don't really target specific countries. They cover every country within a given latitude range. A round LEO orbit that goes over the US must also go over China. However you don't need geostationary orbits to target a given part of the globe. Molniya orbits do the same thing more or less and work better if you want coverage further away from the equator. They were popularized by the USSR and the US and China use them to varying extents.

analog31 4y ago
I had to look it up. It must have taken some impressive math work to invent that orbit in the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
georgeg23 4y ago
The SDA satellites are barely skimming Earth's atmosphere and may eventually take a more "active" role intercepting missiles and even targeting the ground, at least that's according to the SDA program's founder, https://breakingdefense.com/2018/08/space-based-missile-defense-is-doable-dod-rd-chief-griffin/ https://breakingdefense.com/2018/08/space-based-missile-defe...

enkid 4y ago

They're targeting Chinese capabilities, not Chinese geography.

analog31 4y ago
Sure, we're targeting Chinese capabilities that happen to be hovering over US geography.

LarryMullins 4y ago

It can be done with highly eccentric and inclined geo-syncronized (not geostationary) orbits. For instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Zenith_Satellite_System#/media/File:Qzss-01-120s2.gif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Zenith_Satellite_System#...