4 ms·

I contend that mostly what you're getting out of your three days or three months somewhere is a blast of novelty. It's not making you any smarter or better, whi

I contend that mostly what you're getting out of your three days or three months somewhere is a blast of novelty. It's not making you any smarter or better, which is what a lot of people try to claim.

frasertimo 15y ago
Ever heard the phrase 'you get out what you put in'? Travel can give you most of the benefits most people claim it does without you actively trying because of how it forcibly takes you out of your comfort zone. But if you show up just expecting it to change you, or even worse; challenge it to, then you won't get anywhere near as much out of it. I expect that your own experiences are more a reflection of your attitude towards it than what most enthusiastic travelers (including myself) claim it does. You get out what you put in.
glenra 15y ago
Learning "how things are done" in other very different places does tend to make you smarter. In several ways, including but not limited to: - you are forced to solve new problems imposed by your surroundings, which makes you a better problem-solver generally - you become exposed to and aware of different ways that other cultures solve problems, which widens your own tool set - you become more aware of some of your own default cultural/political/technological assumptions, and thus better able to set some of those biases aside when you face problems for which they aren't appropriate. A weekend package tour won't give you much of that, but living for a few weeks or months someplace significantly different than your home country often will.
- lusr 15y ago
  - you become aware of inner resources you weren't aware existed when you're exposed to situations you're unfamiliar with, developing a greater sense of self-confidence and self-respect
gwern 15y ago
> I contend that mostly what you're getting out of your three days or three months somewhere is a blast of novelty. It's not making you any smarter or better Given the endless research literature on challenges and cognitive capabilities, and especially the inverse correlation between novelty and mental decline in the elderly, I would be chary of making such claims.
georgieporgie 15y ago
No way. I spent six months in Japan last year, on two three-month tourist visas. Within the first three months, I had learned immense, immense amounts about Japan, myself, and the rest of the world (via housemates and acquaintances). That trip taught me more than any other similar period in my life. It's not making you any smarter or better, which is what a lot of people try to claim. The best quote on travel I've read is, "travel doesn't make you interesting, it makes you interested." The few people I've met who thought it made 'better' were the same sorts of desperate saps that name-drop their college all the time. But these schmucks say nothing about going to college, just as the other schmucks say nothing about the validity of travel. You can't judge the world on the basis insecure people.
- rubashov 15y ago
  Well, yes, if you've never traveled at all, and especially never traveled outside the west, I would guess that's rather eye-opening. I'm addressing the people who endlessly hit up new places and try to pretend it means something. It's just novelty seeking, as best I can tell, which is to some extent a trait of immaturity.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    It's just novelty seeking, as best I can tell I suspect that the problem here is simply that you are wrong. I'm not sure why, but you're consistently trying to be condescending about those who value travel. What do you gain by categorizing and marginalizing others? Living somewhere is okay, but merely traveling through is just "novelty seeking"? As if "novelty seeking" cannot itself be an activity that leads to personal growth?
    - msellout 15y ago
      Hey now, though he's not saying it well, he's got a point. I've been on some extensive travels and sometimes everything starts to blend together. I sit in a cafe and can't remember which city I'm in. It's really the people you meet that stand out, but the sample size per city is still quite small. It's easy to claim that you get exposed to a different culture, but if you only get to know a few dozen people then you might have found a similar culture back home in a different neighborhood. I think the key is the attitude change that is often stimulated by, but not necessarily caused by travel. You could get the same thing by waking up one morning and realizing you'd like to meet some folks from the other side of town and learn what they think about life, work, love, etc. Disclaimer: I travel for work. Meeting up with CouchSurfers keeps me sane.
marquis 15y ago
Have you ever had your passport stolen in a country where you don't speak the language? Been stuck on a bus for 10 hours in the middle of nowhere where the only food looks like it can walk? Had to get from your hotel to the airport at 2am without having a taxi service to call? Everytime I go through something like this it empowers me and that will to survive goes straight into my business. Sales down this month? Whatever, we'll figure it out. Critical service down? Eh, I'll do an all nighter and write personal apologies to customers with salutations in their language. Before I travelled I was a youthful know-it-all. Years later I'm a much more youthful, stable, interested-in-all-perspectives adult who has the confidence to take on almost anything because business just isn't that hard compared to living on $1 a day with fresh water 10 kilometers away.
- pbsd 15y ago
  All your examples look strange only if you're living in a wealthy place. I can recall having to do all these without having to set foot on a plane, except one: whenever I go somewhere, I bother to learn at least a little of the local language.
  - msellout 15y ago
    Thus highlighting a benefit to traveling if you're not familiar with the realities of different countries. I was shocked to find out that some relatively affluent countries still don't have street addresses.
  - marquis 15y ago
    Yes, you're right. I grew up in a very comfortable country where bureaucracy, transport, communications etc were not problematic. When I go home I'm no longer bothered by 'first world problems' and it's just made me a happier person.

frasertimo 15y ago

Ever heard the phrase 'you get out what you put in'? Travel can give you most of the benefits most people claim it does without you actively trying because of how it forcibly takes you out of your comfort zone. But if you show up just expecting it to change you, or even worse; challenge it to, then you won't get anywhere near as much out of it. I expect that your own experiences are more a reflection of your attitude towards it than what most enthusiastic travelers (including myself) claim it does. You get out what you put in.

glenra 15y ago

Learning "how things are done" in other very different places does tend to make you smarter. In several ways, including but not limited to: - you are forced to solve new problems imposed by your surroundings, which makes you a better problem-solver generally - you become exposed to and aware of different ways that other cultures solve problems, which widens your own tool set - you become more aware of some of your own default cultural/political/technological assumptions, and thus better able to set some of those biases aside when you face problems for which they aren't appropriate. A weekend package tour won't give you much of that, but living for a few weeks or months someplace significantly different than your home country often will.

lusr 15y ago
- you become aware of inner resources you weren't aware existed when you're exposed to situations you're unfamiliar with, developing a greater sense of self-confidence and self-respect

gwern 15y ago

> I contend that mostly what you're getting out of your three days or three months somewhere is a blast of novelty. It's not making you any smarter or better Given the endless research literature on challenges and cognitive capabilities, and especially the inverse correlation between novelty and mental decline in the elderly, I would be chary of making such claims.

georgieporgie 15y ago

No way. I spent six months in Japan last year, on two three-month tourist visas. Within the first three months, I had learned immense, immense amounts about Japan, myself, and the rest of the world (via housemates and acquaintances). That trip taught me more than any other similar period in my life. It's not making you any smarter or better, which is what a lot of people try to claim. The best quote on travel I've read is, "travel doesn't make you interesting, it makes you interested." The few people I've met who thought it made 'better' were the same sorts of desperate saps that name-drop their college all the time. But these schmucks say nothing about going to college, just as the other schmucks say nothing about the validity of travel. You can't judge the world on the basis insecure people.

rubashov 15y ago
Well, yes, if you've never traveled at all, and especially never traveled outside the west, I would guess that's rather eye-opening. I'm addressing the people who endlessly hit up new places and try to pretend it means something. It's just novelty seeking, as best I can tell, which is to some extent a trait of immaturity.
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  It's just novelty seeking, as best I can tell I suspect that the problem here is simply that you are wrong. I'm not sure why, but you're consistently trying to be condescending about those who value travel. What do you gain by categorizing and marginalizing others? Living somewhere is okay, but merely traveling through is just "novelty seeking"? As if "novelty seeking" cannot itself be an activity that leads to personal growth?
  - msellout 15y ago
    Hey now, though he's not saying it well, he's got a point. I've been on some extensive travels and sometimes everything starts to blend together. I sit in a cafe and can't remember which city I'm in. It's really the people you meet that stand out, but the sample size per city is still quite small. It's easy to claim that you get exposed to a different culture, but if you only get to know a few dozen people then you might have found a similar culture back home in a different neighborhood. I think the key is the attitude change that is often stimulated by, but not necessarily caused by travel. You could get the same thing by waking up one morning and realizing you'd like to meet some folks from the other side of town and learn what they think about life, work, love, etc. Disclaimer: I travel for work. Meeting up with CouchSurfers keeps me sane.

marquis 15y ago

Have you ever had your passport stolen in a country where you don't speak the language? Been stuck on a bus for 10 hours in the middle of nowhere where the only food looks like it can walk? Had to get from your hotel to the airport at 2am without having a taxi service to call? Everytime I go through something like this it empowers me and that will to survive goes straight into my business. Sales down this month? Whatever, we'll figure it out. Critical service down? Eh, I'll do an all nighter and write personal apologies to customers with salutations in their language. Before I travelled I was a youthful know-it-all. Years later I'm a much more youthful, stable, interested-in-all-perspectives adult who has the confidence to take on almost anything because business just isn't that hard compared to living on $1 a day with fresh water 10 kilometers away.

pbsd 15y ago
All your examples look strange only if you're living in a wealthy place. I can recall having to do all these without having to set foot on a plane, except one: whenever I go somewhere, I bother to learn at least a little of the local language.
- msellout 15y ago
  Thus highlighting a benefit to traveling if you're not familiar with the realities of different countries. I was shocked to find out that some relatively affluent countries still don't have street addresses.
- marquis 15y ago
  Yes, you're right. I grew up in a very comfortable country where bureaucracy, transport, communications etc were not problematic. When I go home I'm no longer bothered by 'first world problems' and it's just made me a happier person.