5 ms·

The prices are simply too high for the marginal benefit they offer. Marginal costs outweigh the benefits so why would people buy? This is simple economics and

by than3 4y ago

The prices are simply too high for the marginal benefit they offer. Marginal costs outweigh the benefits so why would people buy? This is simple economics and they know this, but they still price fix because they must meet their minimum profits whatever that may be. Its a common problem with monopolies, as soon as the market place shrinks to only a few players, where the means of production has been concentrated, those people then start dictating prices and may collude without even needing some conspiratorial agreement. Many people also ignore the fact that Intel ME/AMT and the AMD equivalent features that cannot be disabled, are not documented, and are primary targets; are becoming more well known, and in general people don't want it. Businesses may find value in those features, but individuals find cost (i.e. their privacy, and greater future risks that are unquantifiable). They've broken their own market, and the rot will only get worse for them since its unlikely they will right the course. Many IT people wonder if there isn't some secret government mandate requiring these companies to embed management co-processors. It is clearly offering only minimal value to IT, and its seen as a cost for individuals that know about it. They really need to reconsider their actual market instead of the fairy magic kingdom type thinking they have been following.

xen2xen1 4y ago
You're putting the fact that modern computers have AMT up with Covid, supply shortages, and Crypto crashes in terms of sales loss???...????? You really, really need to get out of whatever bubble you're in.
- anonym29 4y ago
  AMD ST (formerly PSP) and Intel CSME (formerly ME, not the same as AMT) are the only reason that I, and 3 close friends off the top of my head, are completely disinterested in buying any new x86 CPUs. All 4 of us work in big tech companies, have 6 figure take home pay even after expenses. I don't mind paying high prices due to shortages. Lockdowns were BS and I was continuing to eat out regularly at restaurants from September 2020 to present in a state with lax mask requirements. Only 1 of the 3 friends lost any money in crypto, and it was a very small amount compared to his annual income. Just because you and your social sphere don't fully appreciate the privacy implications of CSME and ST, which again, aren't the same as AMT, doesn't mean nobody else cares about them. Have you considered that it might be you who is in the bubble?
  - kalleboo 4y ago
    > have 6 figure take home pay even after expenses Being in the top 1% of global income, and top 5% of US income, is definitely being inside a bubble.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    Your and your 3 friends have absolutely no effect on the macro cpu market.
    - anonym29 4y ago
      I understand that n=4 is a small sample, and it is not representative of the general population, but you're strawmanning my argument if you're suggesting my point is that the four of us alone affect the market, I'm suggesting a larger trend.
  - genocidicbunny 4y ago
    Your social sphere is tiny, to be quite frank. The market we're talking about is tens of millions to billions of devices. You and your four friends, or your ten friends, or your thousand or even hundred thousand friends are largely not relevant. The vast majority of people using computers that have these processors in them would probably give you a very puzzled look if you even asked them what CSME or ST are.
    - anonym29 4y ago
      This is not my entire social sphere, nor is my argument that my social sphere alone has influence, it's just an example (admittedly a small one that isn't representative of the general population, see other comments) of a larger trend. Please also read my other comments where I discuss Google wanting ME-free CPUs for their servers as part of an effort to remove all proprietary blobs that was started in 2017. There is enormous institutional demand that singlehandedly justifies this offering, even if you entirely disregard the very real consumer demand. The vast majority of people cannot cover a $500 emergency expense and fall for extremely basic phishing attempts - what the "average" person wants is an objectively bad metric to strive for or to base reasonable expectations upon. The "average" person is a fool that struggles to cover the lowest levels of their hierarchy of needs, to say nothing of abstract concepts like digital privacy. Would you accept what the average person has for your financial situation? Your education? Your level of personal responsibility? I sure as hell wouldn't. Why should we factor the ignorant opinions of the tech-illiterate regarding digital privacy as a baseline for what ought to be? I know this comes across as harsh, but that's reality. Consumers these days by and large don't even understand what data is being collected about them, let alone how the data collected from them can be used against them: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/07/technology/online-privacy-tracking-report.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/07/technology/online-privacy... Non-paywall link: https://archive.is/A6kJ2 https://archive.is/A6kJ2

by than3 4y ago

xen2xen1 4y ago

You're putting the fact that modern computers have AMT up with Covid, supply shortages, and Crypto crashes in terms of sales loss???...????? You really, really need to get out of whatever bubble you're in.

anonym29 4y ago
AMD ST (formerly PSP) and Intel CSME (formerly ME, not the same as AMT) are the only reason that I, and 3 close friends off the top of my head, are completely disinterested in buying any new x86 CPUs. All 4 of us work in big tech companies, have 6 figure take home pay even after expenses. I don't mind paying high prices due to shortages. Lockdowns were BS and I was continuing to eat out regularly at restaurants from September 2020 to present in a state with lax mask requirements. Only 1 of the 3 friends lost any money in crypto, and it was a very small amount compared to his annual income. Just because you and your social sphere don't fully appreciate the privacy implications of CSME and ST, which again, aren't the same as AMT, doesn't mean nobody else cares about them. Have you considered that it might be you who is in the bubble?
- kalleboo 4y ago
  > have 6 figure take home pay even after expenses Being in the top 1% of global income, and top 5% of US income, is definitely being inside a bubble.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  Your and your 3 friends have absolutely no effect on the macro cpu market.
  - anonym29 4y ago
    I understand that n=4 is a small sample, and it is not representative of the general population, but you're strawmanning my argument if you're suggesting my point is that the four of us alone affect the market, I'm suggesting a larger trend.
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  Your social sphere is tiny, to be quite frank. The market we're talking about is tens of millions to billions of devices. You and your four friends, or your ten friends, or your thousand or even hundred thousand friends are largely not relevant. The vast majority of people using computers that have these processors in them would probably give you a very puzzled look if you even asked them what CSME or ST are.
  - anonym29 4y ago
    This is not my entire social sphere, nor is my argument that my social sphere alone has influence, it's just an example (admittedly a small one that isn't representative of the general population, see other comments) of a larger trend. Please also read my other comments where I discuss Google wanting ME-free CPUs for their servers as part of an effort to remove all proprietary blobs that was started in 2017. There is enormous institutional demand that singlehandedly justifies this offering, even if you entirely disregard the very real consumer demand. The vast majority of people cannot cover a $500 emergency expense and fall for extremely basic phishing attempts - what the "average" person wants is an objectively bad metric to strive for or to base reasonable expectations upon. The "average" person is a fool that struggles to cover the lowest levels of their hierarchy of needs, to say nothing of abstract concepts like digital privacy. Would you accept what the average person has for your financial situation? Your education? Your level of personal responsibility? I sure as hell wouldn't. Why should we factor the ignorant opinions of the tech-illiterate regarding digital privacy as a baseline for what ought to be? I know this comes across as harsh, but that's reality. Consumers these days by and large don't even understand what data is being collected about them, let alone how the data collected from them can be used against them: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/07/technology/online-privacy-tracking-report.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/07/technology/online-privacy... Non-paywall link: https://archive.is/A6kJ2 https://archive.is/A6kJ2