4 ms·

Yes, this is the best way to get out of poverty. Just requires some planning and discipline. From my experience, the working poor often have a lot of ingenuity

by bko 4y ago

Yes, this is the best way to get out of poverty. Just requires some planning and discipline. From my experience, the working poor often have a lot of ingenuity in some regards. For instance, as a group they have a lot of collective knowledge about navigating transfer payments (e.g. food stamp eligibility, subsidized housing, etc). But in other respects they fall short. For instance, they're the largest gamblers. > Nationwide, people who make less than $10,000 spend on average $597 on lottery tickets — about 6 percent of their income. > Those in the lowest fifth in terms of socioeconomic status (SES) had the “highest rate of lottery gambling (61%) and the highest mean level of days gambled in the past year (26.1 days).” Moreover, there were “very few observed differences in lottery gambling for those in the three upper SES groups — 42–43% gambled on the lottery and the three upper groups averaged about 10 days of gambling on the lottery in the past year.” [0] Gambling and lottery in particular is really bad for the poor. It's one thing for it to be legal, but do we really need to let states run phone apps to make playing lottery even easier? [0] https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/1/13/10763268/lottery-poor-prey https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/1/13/10763268/lottery-po... [1] https://journalistsresource.org/economics/research-review-lotteries-demographics/ https://journalistsresource.org/economics/research-review-lo...

landemva 4y ago
Great example for the benefits of 'no loss lottery'. Savings plan which provides prizes.
- iinnPP 4y ago
  My wife and I do this using TV bingo sometimes and use freely printed bingo sheets with some old markers. It's a fun way to spend an hour and sometimes it means we go out for dinner or buy something fun.
- turtleyacht 4y ago
  Great perspective on a savings account. Yes--why can't there be a lottery app that masquerades as a high-yield savings account? I mean, there can still be a payout, but it would be from a separate source like ad revenue or something passive.
  - landemva 4y ago
    Available to everyone and no ID required. https://app.pooltogether.com https://app.pooltogether.com
iinnPP 4y ago
This is why TP is not a great example to use. The exact same example exists for essential items such as food. Buying food on sale and canning or freezing is a fantastic way to save money and increase nutritional intake. At one point in my life I had a paycheck withheld illegally (according to the government of Ontario and incredibly basic math). This violation led to an eviction, interest payments, court fees, a huge time and energy burden, and a boatload of other problems. All I received was the pay I earned, no interest despite it being a year later. The company was fined $1500. I told the government representatives all of the above to which they said I should have taken them to court at my own expense. With what money I asked? They went on about the government paying the cost to investigate yada yada. The company paid less than the taxpayer despite the company doing the harm. They also got to use my money to invest for an entire year while I struggled. So really, no matter how you decide to look at it, it is incredibly expensive to be poor. A bidet is not an answer, it is an excuse to help some people feel better about it being a problem. An escape from reality by sometimes blaming the victim. There are plenty of shitty poor people too, of course. I'm also unsure why you are bringing the lottery into the discussion. It's lazy. It's inflammatory for no good reason. It's wrong. I don't mean any offense.
- bko 4y ago
  If one paycheck means you get evicted then it's more of a budgeting problem than an income problem. It could also be an income problem but the problem is budgeting and emergency planning. 63% of Americans live pay check to paycheck and nearly half of people earning 100k do as well. > Even high-income earners are under pressure, LendingClub found. Of those earning more than six figures, 47% reported living paycheck to paycheck, a jump from the previous month's 43%. Regardless of your income level you should build a cushion so this doesn't happen to you. If you want to pretend every person who is poor is a faithful financial steward and that it's written in the stars that they'll always be destitute, i think that's naive https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/15/amid-high-inflation-63percent-of-americans-are-living-paycheck-to-paycheck.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/15/amid-high-inflation-63percen...
  - iinnPP 4y ago
    I was 17 and homeless prior to the job. I had to drop out of school for it. The only other option was living in a home for 16-17 year olds that had two cats (I have a 10/10 allergy to cats). I am also not trying to claim this is common or even not extremely uncommon. Rather, I am stating that being poor is expensive. I even gave you a specific example where it is true. Where having money would mean first and foremost that I would be in school instead of working to pay rent at 17. But that's not even where being poor started to cost me. It started to cost me when I missed meals as a kid. Is that also my fault? Not everyone can build a cushion. That's just the way it is. There are countless divergences from the "normal" that can wreak absolute havoc on a person's health and wealth. Nobody is choosing this life. I am no longer poor. I am a full 10 years behind my equally financially privileged brethren. I work harder, perform better, and have far superior outcomes than the people of my age who have come from a family who owned a home and could afford to send them to college while paying for housing. Lazy people are everywhere, it's scary, it's terrifying. If that behaviour is a benefit of wealth, and it is frankly, it is in itself evidence of the cost of being poor. I've also never asked for a hand-out. I work very hard to undo the cost of being poor. To say that it wasn't a massive disadvantage with an equivalent cost is to lie.

by bko 4y ago

landemva 4y ago

Great example for the benefits of 'no loss lottery'. Savings plan which provides prizes.

iinnPP 4y ago
My wife and I do this using TV bingo sometimes and use freely printed bingo sheets with some old markers. It's a fun way to spend an hour and sometimes it means we go out for dinner or buy something fun.
turtleyacht 4y ago
Great perspective on a savings account. Yes--why can't there be a lottery app that masquerades as a high-yield savings account? I mean, there can still be a payout, but it would be from a separate source like ad revenue or something passive.
- landemva 4y ago
  Available to everyone and no ID required. https://app.pooltogether.com https://app.pooltogether.com

iinnPP 4y ago

This is why TP is not a great example to use. The exact same example exists for essential items such as food. Buying food on sale and canning or freezing is a fantastic way to save money and increase nutritional intake. At one point in my life I had a paycheck withheld illegally (according to the government of Ontario and incredibly basic math). This violation led to an eviction, interest payments, court fees, a huge time and energy burden, and a boatload of other problems. All I received was the pay I earned, no interest despite it being a year later. The company was fined $1500. I told the government representatives all of the above to which they said I should have taken them to court at my own expense. With what money I asked? They went on about the government paying the cost to investigate yada yada. The company paid less than the taxpayer despite the company doing the harm. They also got to use my money to invest for an entire year while I struggled. So really, no matter how you decide to look at it, it is incredibly expensive to be poor. A bidet is not an answer, it is an excuse to help some people feel better about it being a problem. An escape from reality by sometimes blaming the victim. There are plenty of shitty poor people too, of course. I'm also unsure why you are bringing the lottery into the discussion. It's lazy. It's inflammatory for no good reason. It's wrong. I don't mean any offense.

bko 4y ago
If one paycheck means you get evicted then it's more of a budgeting problem than an income problem. It could also be an income problem but the problem is budgeting and emergency planning. 63% of Americans live pay check to paycheck and nearly half of people earning 100k do as well. > Even high-income earners are under pressure, LendingClub found. Of those earning more than six figures, 47% reported living paycheck to paycheck, a jump from the previous month's 43%. Regardless of your income level you should build a cushion so this doesn't happen to you. If you want to pretend every person who is poor is a faithful financial steward and that it's written in the stars that they'll always be destitute, i think that's naive https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/15/amid-high-inflation-63percent-of-americans-are-living-paycheck-to-paycheck.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/15/amid-high-inflation-63percen...
- iinnPP 4y ago
  I was 17 and homeless prior to the job. I had to drop out of school for it. The only other option was living in a home for 16-17 year olds that had two cats (I have a 10/10 allergy to cats). I am also not trying to claim this is common or even not extremely uncommon. Rather, I am stating that being poor is expensive. I even gave you a specific example where it is true. Where having money would mean first and foremost that I would be in school instead of working to pay rent at 17. But that's not even where being poor started to cost me. It started to cost me when I missed meals as a kid. Is that also my fault? Not everyone can build a cushion. That's just the way it is. There are countless divergences from the "normal" that can wreak absolute havoc on a person's health and wealth. Nobody is choosing this life. I am no longer poor. I am a full 10 years behind my equally financially privileged brethren. I work harder, perform better, and have far superior outcomes than the people of my age who have come from a family who owned a home and could afford to send them to college while paying for housing. Lazy people are everywhere, it's scary, it's terrifying. If that behaviour is a benefit of wealth, and it is frankly, it is in itself evidence of the cost of being poor. I've also never asked for a hand-out. I work very hard to undo the cost of being poor. To say that it wasn't a massive disadvantage with an equivalent cost is to lie.