4 ms·

This seems quite obvious to me. Another spin on it is that you can trade self-reliance for time. All of these conveniences you can get for money make you depen

by spurgu 4y ago

This seems quite obvious to me. Another spin on it is that you can trade self-reliance for time. All of these conveniences you can get for money make you dependent on someone else (and dependent on your income stream). You eat out at the expense of forgetting (or not even learning) how to cook. You take an Uber at the expense of not having a car (or knowing how to drive). On the other extreme end of the spectrum you have a small piece of land where you grow your own food and sell/trade a little surplus for things you cannot make yourself. The latter is more like my utopia. I've lived the "take Uber everywhere" lifestyle and it's not particularly fulfilling. I've also grown my own food (not in a self-sustaining way, more like dabbling in it so far) and I find the time I put into that to be so much more fulfilling. I suppose there's a spectrum between those two ends as well and most people find comfort somewhere in between. Edit: I only browsed through the first half of the article, I see that author is proposing some conclusions and solutions at the end. I hadn't read nor considered those when I wrote the above.

qsort 4y ago
> I suppose there's a spectrum between those two ends as well and most people find comfort somewhere in between. Yes, I'm going to pull a Homer Simpson right there: it sure is nice we have digital magic beans we can give to other people in exchange for goods and services.
giantg2 4y ago
"Another spin on it is that you can trade self-reliance for time. All of these conveniences you can get for money make you dependent on someone else (and dependent on your income stream)." If only other people saw it that way. My wife is like "just hire people to do stuff" or "just buy one". Well, it costs money to hire people. Where's that going to come from? Or sure, we can buy something that cost 2x-10x and is likely half the quality or not custom built for the application. I agree there is fulfillment in building something. So I guess part of why I DIY is cost and part is a sense of achievement I don't get from work.
- doubled112 4y ago
  > part is a sense of achievement I don't get from work This hit me in the feels, somehow. Everybody made me believe I'd get a sense of achievement from hard work, but that stopped being true some time ago. If the work isn't something I'm ever going to see and use, I just feel detached and uninterested. Maybe it'll come back some day, but it's all pretty meh right now. Another problem solved for somebody else, but at least I'm getting paid. A DIY project at home, however, fills a void work doesn't.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Buying a replacement or hiring a repairperson instead of fixing something yourself means that you also have to pay a cycle of income tax on it. If your marginal rate is 40%, to pay a repair person $250, you have to go out and earn ~$420. That $250 you saved by doing a DIY repair is economically the same to your family as earning $420 additional from freelance work and paying someone $250 and the government $170.
  - landemva 4y ago
    The truly wealthy understand non-wage income and how everything physical should be owned by and maintained by trusts and corps. They don't teach that in school. The quickest way to fix this unfair scheme is to completely repeal the personal income tax. That government revenue can be offset by increasing sales tax on everything (except uncooked food at grocery stores).
- harvey9 4y ago
  Poor people are less likely to be homeowners who can make that investment in DIY. Instead their time cost is chasing up a landlord who is slow to do repairs. I do agree with your wider point though, and car maintenance skills are especially valuable to poor people keeping an older car running.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Sure, but this can apply to cars, or fixing small appliances, doing your taxes, etc.
carlosjobim 4y ago
> On the other extreme end of the spectrum you have a small piece of land where you grow your own food and sell/trade a little surplus for things you cannot make yourself. Inevitably everybody discovers that they need to work just a little more to make a huge surplus, and then they'll be interested in selling. To have double the output of your work might take only 20% more effort, because you always have the time used setting up your tools/workspace, planning your work and such.

by spurgu 4y ago

qsort 4y ago

> I suppose there's a spectrum between those two ends as well and most people find comfort somewhere in between. Yes, I'm going to pull a Homer Simpson right there: it sure is nice we have digital magic beans we can give to other people in exchange for goods and services.

giantg2 4y ago

"Another spin on it is that you can trade self-reliance for time. All of these conveniences you can get for money make you dependent on someone else (and dependent on your income stream)." If only other people saw it that way. My wife is like "just hire people to do stuff" or "just buy one". Well, it costs money to hire people. Where's that going to come from? Or sure, we can buy something that cost 2x-10x and is likely half the quality or not custom built for the application. I agree there is fulfillment in building something. So I guess part of why I DIY is cost and part is a sense of achievement I don't get from work.

doubled112 4y ago
> part is a sense of achievement I don't get from work This hit me in the feels, somehow. Everybody made me believe I'd get a sense of achievement from hard work, but that stopped being true some time ago. If the work isn't something I'm ever going to see and use, I just feel detached and uninterested. Maybe it'll come back some day, but it's all pretty meh right now. Another problem solved for somebody else, but at least I'm getting paid. A DIY project at home, however, fills a void work doesn't.
sokoloff 4y ago
Buying a replacement or hiring a repairperson instead of fixing something yourself means that you also have to pay a cycle of income tax on it. If your marginal rate is 40%, to pay a repair person $250, you have to go out and earn ~$420. That $250 you saved by doing a DIY repair is economically the same to your family as earning $420 additional from freelance work and paying someone $250 and the government $170.
- landemva 4y ago
  The truly wealthy understand non-wage income and how everything physical should be owned by and maintained by trusts and corps. They don't teach that in school. The quickest way to fix this unfair scheme is to completely repeal the personal income tax. That government revenue can be offset by increasing sales tax on everything (except uncooked food at grocery stores).
harvey9 4y ago
Poor people are less likely to be homeowners who can make that investment in DIY. Instead their time cost is chasing up a landlord who is slow to do repairs. I do agree with your wider point though, and car maintenance skills are especially valuable to poor people keeping an older car running.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Sure, but this can apply to cars, or fixing small appliances, doing your taxes, etc.

carlosjobim 4y ago

> On the other extreme end of the spectrum you have a small piece of land where you grow your own food and sell/trade a little surplus for things you cannot make yourself. Inevitably everybody discovers that they need to work just a little more to make a huge surplus, and then they'll be interested in selling. To have double the output of your work might take only 20% more effort, because you always have the time used setting up your tools/workspace, planning your work and such.