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Any time this comes up, its good to bring up California's 2005 pilot program; ReadyReturn. "When the FTB launched the ReadyReturn website, Intuit sued and lobbi

by pfranz 4y ago

Any time this comes up, its good to bring up California's 2005 pilot program; ReadyReturn. "When the FTB launched the ReadyReturn website, Intuit sued and lobbied California legislators to kill the program." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalFile#ReadyReturn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalFile#ReadyReturn

GalenErso 4y ago
On what grounds did they sue? "You're hurting my profits"?
- baq 4y ago
  Of course, what else? It was just worded differently
- dataflow 4y ago
  I believe I once read the argument is that this would make people pay more in taxes, since presumably the government would seek to assess the highest liability if there's any ambiguity, and people would be less encouraged to find deduction/credit/etc. opportunities.
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  Can't speak for California law, but in NC, when a local municipality set up its own fiber network, they were sued by ... Time Warner Cable (IIRC) on the grounds that cities can't use public funds to 'compete' with private companies. To add insult to injury, they were mostly looking to manage their own fiber network to serve their citizens because TWC had said "no, we're not going to support your region, because it's not profitable". So... it's not profitable for a private company, and public orgs can't compete with private companies..... so... take a hike?
  - gl-prod 4y ago
    I guess this is a legislative problem that will never be solved for obvious reasons.
- dheera 4y ago
  Yes, Intuit is a publicly traded company, they have fiduciary duty to do whatever is within their power to return their shareholders a profit, including suing the shit out of IRS for attempting to make their product obsolete. Welcome to late stage capitalism.
  - readthenotes1 4y ago
    How is what you described late stage capitalism as opposed to simply capitalism?
    - atomicnumber3 4y ago
      I think late-stage is usually used to imply that while many of these mechanics can be useful as a way to efficiently allocate capital in some earlier stages of capitalism where private companies are more distributed and act less like governments, that when they finally go to their eventual conclusion and companies meaningfully go toe to toe with the government (and even finish regulatory capture), it becomes pathological and harmful.
      - danaris 4y ago
        I'd say, more succinctly, that late-stage capitalism is when the maximizing of profit ceases to simply be a means to an end, and becomes an end in itself. At least, that's more or less how I personally view it.
      - readthenotes1 4y ago
        In the United States in the late 1800s, wealth was incredibly concentrated in a few families and as far as I can tell they ran the government. So it was late stage back then, would that make now post late stage? On the other hand, I would think that late stage capitalism would be defined when there is regulation of greed to prevent predatory and monopolistic practices that reduce competition. Or maybe that should just be called sustainable capitalism?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- dv_dt 4y ago
  Yes that is a frequent argument when governments look at building public goods.
iambateman 4y ago
Yes! This podcast episode is an excellent primer on that story: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...

by pfranz 4y ago

GalenErso 4y ago

On what grounds did they sue? "You're hurting my profits"?

baq 4y ago
Of course, what else? It was just worded differently
dataflow 4y ago
I believe I once read the argument is that this would make people pay more in taxes, since presumably the government would seek to assess the highest liability if there's any ambiguity, and people would be less encouraged to find deduction/credit/etc. opportunities.
mgkimsal 4y ago
Can't speak for California law, but in NC, when a local municipality set up its own fiber network, they were sued by ... Time Warner Cable (IIRC) on the grounds that cities can't use public funds to 'compete' with private companies. To add insult to injury, they were mostly looking to manage their own fiber network to serve their citizens because TWC had said "no, we're not going to support your region, because it's not profitable". So... it's not profitable for a private company, and public orgs can't compete with private companies..... so... take a hike?
- gl-prod 4y ago
  I guess this is a legislative problem that will never be solved for obvious reasons.
dheera 4y ago
Yes, Intuit is a publicly traded company, they have fiduciary duty to do whatever is within their power to return their shareholders a profit, including suing the shit out of IRS for attempting to make their product obsolete. Welcome to late stage capitalism.
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  How is what you described late stage capitalism as opposed to simply capitalism?
  - atomicnumber3 4y ago
    I think late-stage is usually used to imply that while many of these mechanics can be useful as a way to efficiently allocate capital in some earlier stages of capitalism where private companies are more distributed and act less like governments, that when they finally go to their eventual conclusion and companies meaningfully go toe to toe with the government (and even finish regulatory capture), it becomes pathological and harmful.
    - danaris 4y ago
      I'd say, more succinctly, that late-stage capitalism is when the maximizing of profit ceases to simply be a means to an end, and becomes an end in itself. At least, that's more or less how I personally view it.
    - readthenotes1 4y ago
      In the United States in the late 1800s, wealth was incredibly concentrated in a few families and as far as I can tell they ran the government. So it was late stage back then, would that make now post late stage? On the other hand, I would think that late stage capitalism would be defined when there is regulation of greed to prevent predatory and monopolistic practices that reduce competition. Or maybe that should just be called sustainable capitalism?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
dv_dt 4y ago
Yes that is a frequent argument when governments look at building public goods.

iambateman 4y ago

Yes! This podcast episode is an excellent primer on that story: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...