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Many great mathematicians and physicists had used time as 4th dimension, but none developed it out into special relativity, even Lorentz has his name on the Lor

Many great mathematicians and physicists had used time as 4th dimension, but none developed it out into special relativity, even Lorentz has his name on the Lorentz's transformation, but he didn't see a brand new space-time relationship. There is a huge gap between linking something together to writing it down with a mind boggling and fundamentally new theory to reshape how human beings see the universe. That said, all people's work are built on top of predecessors. Without generations work on mathematics before 20 century, Einstein wouldn't have developed GR as well.

fnordpiglet 4y ago
I think it’s safe to say without 5000+ years of mathematically research Einstein wouldn’t have developed GR.
- mr_mitm 4y ago
  It's also remarkable that the mathematical tools required for GR were developed just in the few decades before Einstein wrote down his equations.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Yeah there’s definitely some singularity like stuff happening. While we don’t see visibly dramatic evolutions like GR happening, we are making incredible strides on unsolved problems and extravagantly complex discoveries at a blistering pace, so much so that they’re not noteworthy any more.
    - sockaddr 4y ago
      Very true. From the perspective of something like a Tardigrade we are definitely well into a “singularity”. From the perspective of a rock the Tardigrade itself is matter experiencing a “singularity”.
  - bognition 4y ago
    One way to view things is that GR was obvious to a smart person with good enough tools and that if Einstein wouldn't have discovered it someone else would have soon after.
    - mr_mitm 4y ago
      Hmmm, when I studied GR, the consensus was that it came out of nowhere and if it wasn't for Einstein's genius, it would have taken at least a long time until someone else had discovered it. But you make a good point. Ultimately it's an unanswerable question, I guess.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - mjthrowaway1 4y ago
        When I studied GR my professor said that Maxwell was close and had he not died young it would’ve been him.
    - kryptiskt 4y ago
      Of all the physical theories, general relativity is probably the one that's least likely to be true of. Because it just wasn't needed in all its generality at that point of time. Instead of going from first principles like Einstein some other physicist could have developed it from the other end, and made corrections to Newton mechanics based on the observed precession of Mercury and the deflection of starlight by the Sun (if someone would have done that observation without the impetus of GR). It could have been akin to how quantum theory in its first 25 years was a collection of ad-hoc explanations of various phenomena using the quantized energy idea but having no generalized theory of them.
      - zmgsabst 4y ago
        Quantum mechanics and relativity are both explanations of the interferometer from Michelson-Morley. Which turns out to work, now called LIGO, if you apply relativistic and quantum corrections.
wnevets 4y ago
> Without generations work on mathematics before 20 century, Einstein wouldn't have developed GR as well. "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" - Newton I'm sure Einstein would have no problem with applying such a quote to himself.
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  He was infamous at being bad at math with hi wife doing some of the math for him. He never recognized her in doing so.
  - SantalBlush 4y ago
    He wasn't bad at math, but his wife was better at math than he was, and there is a lot of historical evidence suggesting they collaborated on his "miracle year" papers.
  - rubyn00bie 4y ago
    That’s false he wasn’t bad at math. It’s a (false) myth that’s perpetuated. Before he was years 15 old he’d mastered differential and integral calculus: https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1936731_1936743_1936758,00.html https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28...
    - lstodd 4y ago
      Tbh I was taught both in school at about the same age. This doesn't prevent me from kicking the kubernetes can down the road instead of coming up with more general relativity. Maybe it's the lust that's insufficient.
      - 8note 4y ago
        The low hanging fruit on physics discoveries using current technology is also all taken. The right person at the right place at the right time -- the time is maybe the biggest one. It's not just Einstein who revolutionized physics, his contemporaries did too
dandanua 4y ago
To make such a significant breakthrough like relativity theory it's not enough to see connections between seemingly unrelated things. You have to have a sufficiently open and free mind to be able to discard beliefs of generations of scientists. Including your own, implanted through instincts.
loufe 4y ago
Great point and you said it well. Darwin was much the same, many of the ideas he discusses were already out there, but he brought them together in a novel, united, coherent, and compelling way that really made the idea of evolution stand on its own feet.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Most great theories connect existing concepts: Darwin connected the specialization of finches to two bodies of existing work — animal husbandry and the nest hierarchy of biology, by explaining they’re both outcomes of reproductive selection. Einstein connected the idea of Galilean relativity to Maxwell’s equations to explain why Michelson-Morley behaves how it does.
  - evv555 4y ago
    >nest hierarchy of biology Which itself is a derivative of the "great chain of being" ontology which tried to explain the continuous gradation of structures in the world. Ideas like "missing link" appear within this worldview before Darwin's theory[1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being#Scala_Naturae_in_evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being#Scala_Nat...
zinclozenge 4y ago
That's true about Lorentz, although for completeness I just want to point out that the geometric spacetime extension was done by Minkowski.
scotty79 4y ago
When I read about special relativity I notice how many equations and concepts had names of other people. It seemed like Einstein combine various observations and ideas into a single coherent framework.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

I think it’s safe to say without 5000+ years of mathematically research Einstein wouldn’t have developed GR.

mr_mitm 4y ago
It's also remarkable that the mathematical tools required for GR were developed just in the few decades before Einstein wrote down his equations.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Yeah there’s definitely some singularity like stuff happening. While we don’t see visibly dramatic evolutions like GR happening, we are making incredible strides on unsolved problems and extravagantly complex discoveries at a blistering pace, so much so that they’re not noteworthy any more.
  - sockaddr 4y ago
    Very true. From the perspective of something like a Tardigrade we are definitely well into a “singularity”. From the perspective of a rock the Tardigrade itself is matter experiencing a “singularity”.
- bognition 4y ago
  One way to view things is that GR was obvious to a smart person with good enough tools and that if Einstein wouldn't have discovered it someone else would have soon after.
  - mr_mitm 4y ago
    Hmmm, when I studied GR, the consensus was that it came out of nowhere and if it wasn't for Einstein's genius, it would have taken at least a long time until someone else had discovered it. But you make a good point. Ultimately it's an unanswerable question, I guess.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - mjthrowaway1 4y ago
      When I studied GR my professor said that Maxwell was close and had he not died young it would’ve been him.
  - kryptiskt 4y ago
    Of all the physical theories, general relativity is probably the one that's least likely to be true of. Because it just wasn't needed in all its generality at that point of time. Instead of going from first principles like Einstein some other physicist could have developed it from the other end, and made corrections to Newton mechanics based on the observed precession of Mercury and the deflection of starlight by the Sun (if someone would have done that observation without the impetus of GR). It could have been akin to how quantum theory in its first 25 years was a collection of ad-hoc explanations of various phenomena using the quantized energy idea but having no generalized theory of them.
    - zmgsabst 4y ago
      Quantum mechanics and relativity are both explanations of the interferometer from Michelson-Morley. Which turns out to work, now called LIGO, if you apply relativistic and quantum corrections.

wnevets 4y ago

> Without generations work on mathematics before 20 century, Einstein wouldn't have developed GR as well. "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" - Newton I'm sure Einstein would have no problem with applying such a quote to himself.

jhoechtl 4y ago
He was infamous at being bad at math with hi wife doing some of the math for him. He never recognized her in doing so.
- SantalBlush 4y ago
  He wasn't bad at math, but his wife was better at math than he was, and there is a lot of historical evidence suggesting they collaborated on his "miracle year" papers.
- rubyn00bie 4y ago
  That’s false he wasn’t bad at math. It’s a (false) myth that’s perpetuated. Before he was years 15 old he’d mastered differential and integral calculus: https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1936731_1936743_1936758,00.html https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28...
  - lstodd 4y ago
    Tbh I was taught both in school at about the same age. This doesn't prevent me from kicking the kubernetes can down the road instead of coming up with more general relativity. Maybe it's the lust that's insufficient.
    - 8note 4y ago
      The low hanging fruit on physics discoveries using current technology is also all taken. The right person at the right place at the right time -- the time is maybe the biggest one. It's not just Einstein who revolutionized physics, his contemporaries did too

dandanua 4y ago

To make such a significant breakthrough like relativity theory it's not enough to see connections between seemingly unrelated things. You have to have a sufficiently open and free mind to be able to discard beliefs of generations of scientists. Including your own, implanted through instincts.

loufe 4y ago

Great point and you said it well. Darwin was much the same, many of the ideas he discusses were already out there, but he brought them together in a novel, united, coherent, and compelling way that really made the idea of evolution stand on its own feet.

zmgsabst 4y ago
Most great theories connect existing concepts: Darwin connected the specialization of finches to two bodies of existing work — animal husbandry and the nest hierarchy of biology, by explaining they’re both outcomes of reproductive selection. Einstein connected the idea of Galilean relativity to Maxwell’s equations to explain why Michelson-Morley behaves how it does.
- evv555 4y ago
  >nest hierarchy of biology Which itself is a derivative of the "great chain of being" ontology which tried to explain the continuous gradation of structures in the world. Ideas like "missing link" appear within this worldview before Darwin's theory[1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being#Scala_Naturae_in_evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being#Scala_Nat...

zinclozenge 4y ago

That's true about Lorentz, although for completeness I just want to point out that the geometric spacetime extension was done by Minkowski.

scotty79 4y ago

When I read about special relativity I notice how many equations and concepts had names of other people. It seemed like Einstein combine various observations and ideas into a single coherent framework.