3 ms·

'What I can't build, I don't understand'. ADHD and the rest of the DSM will be viewed in the future with the same amount of credibility as we give to the Salem

by breck 4y ago

'What I can't build, I don't understand'. ADHD and the rest of the DSM will be viewed in the future with the same amount of credibility as we give to the Salem Witch Trials. If you want some real science, check out Minsky's Society of Mind and Hawkins' 1,000 Brains for starters.

uptownfunk 4y ago
I am shocked at how quick doctors are today to prescribe medicine to treat psychological conditions. They’ve told me “if we don’t give them what they want, they’ll just go somewhere else” how to deal with this conflict of interest? What about other non pharmaceutical ways to treat these conditions, get fresh air, go to the gym, put down the phone, etc etc.
- fsociety 4y ago
  My experience has been that it is difficult to get treatment from primary care because they are hesitant to prescribe stimulants. The amount of times a doctor has treated me as drug seeking, a risk to go sell stimulants on the street, or prescribed me a stern talking that I lack life skills and need to buy a planner is frankly insulting. I do go out to get fresh air, use my phone for 1-2 hours a day including work Slacks, exercise, meditate etc. Nothing helps like a well dosed stimulant and the drug shortages do not help.
  - thomastjeffery 4y ago
    On top of that, the "Adderall shortage" isn't from a lack of supply: it's from the DEA arbitrarily deciding to constrain the amount that drugmakers may legally manufacture; despite a significant increase in diagnosis. It's all bullshit politics driven by the same thoughtless sentiment we see here.
- annie_muss 4y ago
  I don't think you mean to be, but saying these disorders can be fixed with some fresh air and exercise doesn't match with reality. I have ADHD, exercise and fresh air didn't fix it. I even got rid of my smartphone and home internet connection for 6 months to try to improve my focus. That didn't help either. After years of dead ends, getting a diagnosis and medication is more or less the only thing that has allowed me to hold down a job and live life.
amf12 4y ago
That's a reach. Yes, we don't have biological testing methods for these conditions yet, but that doesn't mean DSM is like "Salem Witch Trials".
- breck 4y ago
  > these conditions You are assuming these are real biological things in an individual, and not normal reactions to flaws in society/environment. I've spent a decade trying to write in silico brains to simulate some of these conditions. I couldn't figure out how to map the DSM to reality. When I became open to the possibility that the DSM really is a weapon to be used against behaviors some people don't like, things started to make more sense.
  - amf12 4y ago
    You are also assuming these are purely linked to environment/society. Some DSM symptoms are likely based on environment and coping mechanisms developed. I do think that current lifestyle makes ADHD worse, but there hasn't been any research which shows it's purely due to society. ADHD has been observed across the world in different lifestyles and societies - rich and poor, different parenting styles, now and when computers weren't a thing. It doesn't seem to purely be related to environment/society. We don't understand a lot about brain, yet to definitively say ADHD is not biological. I don't really know how you mimicked chemical imbalances in silico brain, but just because you couldn't simulate them doesn't prove it's not biological.

by breck 4y ago

uptownfunk 4y ago

I am shocked at how quick doctors are today to prescribe medicine to treat psychological conditions. They’ve told me “if we don’t give them what they want, they’ll just go somewhere else” how to deal with this conflict of interest? What about other non pharmaceutical ways to treat these conditions, get fresh air, go to the gym, put down the phone, etc etc.

fsociety 4y ago
My experience has been that it is difficult to get treatment from primary care because they are hesitant to prescribe stimulants. The amount of times a doctor has treated me as drug seeking, a risk to go sell stimulants on the street, or prescribed me a stern talking that I lack life skills and need to buy a planner is frankly insulting. I do go out to get fresh air, use my phone for 1-2 hours a day including work Slacks, exercise, meditate etc. Nothing helps like a well dosed stimulant and the drug shortages do not help.
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  On top of that, the "Adderall shortage" isn't from a lack of supply: it's from the DEA arbitrarily deciding to constrain the amount that drugmakers may legally manufacture; despite a significant increase in diagnosis. It's all bullshit politics driven by the same thoughtless sentiment we see here.
annie_muss 4y ago
I don't think you mean to be, but saying these disorders can be fixed with some fresh air and exercise doesn't match with reality. I have ADHD, exercise and fresh air didn't fix it. I even got rid of my smartphone and home internet connection for 6 months to try to improve my focus. That didn't help either. After years of dead ends, getting a diagnosis and medication is more or less the only thing that has allowed me to hold down a job and live life.

amf12 4y ago

That's a reach. Yes, we don't have biological testing methods for these conditions yet, but that doesn't mean DSM is like "Salem Witch Trials".

breck 4y ago
> these conditions You are assuming these are real biological things in an individual, and not normal reactions to flaws in society/environment. I've spent a decade trying to write in silico brains to simulate some of these conditions. I couldn't figure out how to map the DSM to reality. When I became open to the possibility that the DSM really is a weapon to be used against behaviors some people don't like, things started to make more sense.
- amf12 4y ago
  You are also assuming these are purely linked to environment/society. Some DSM symptoms are likely based on environment and coping mechanisms developed. I do think that current lifestyle makes ADHD worse, but there hasn't been any research which shows it's purely due to society. ADHD has been observed across the world in different lifestyles and societies - rich and poor, different parenting styles, now and when computers weren't a thing. It doesn't seem to purely be related to environment/society. We don't understand a lot about brain, yet to definitively say ADHD is not biological. I don't really know how you mimicked chemical imbalances in silico brain, but just because you couldn't simulate them doesn't prove it's not biological.