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>While the analyst attempted to remove the US information, in some cases, it said, they “inadvertently failed” to do so. A reminder that every abuse we hear of

>While the analyst attempted to remove the US information, in some cases, it said, they “inadvertently failed” to do so. A reminder that every abuse we hear of is one they failed at covering up. The most famous example of this is MKUltra, where everything we know about the program is from one document cache that survived the incinerator by being mislabeled.

uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
[dead]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- azinman2 4y ago
  I don’t know what the context of this is (or its legitimacy), but what you’re implying is extremely offensive… especially to the Jewish members of my family who did fight in WWII under extremely anti-semitic leadership who would send them on missions first (not last!) that they thought were the most dangerous.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    In what reasonable way is what you wrote an argument? Don’t be offended, be refuting.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      They refuted it with anecdotes of their family members serving. If you want more, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Jewish_Americans#World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Jewish_Ame...
      - teddyh 4y ago
        I did not interpret it in that way; I thought it was “That is offensive to me and even more so to these other people I know”. Your point is correct – it can charitably be interpreted as being a form of refutation argument. However, anecdotes about individual people are a very weak form of argument. I could think of a few better arguments immediately from the top of my head: The clumsy wording of the text (in the PDF) itself. The fact that there seems to be no personal testimonies about what is implied to be an extremely widespread conspiracy. And, of course, your link is a much better argument than any individual anecdote. But ‘azinman’ did not do any of that; they chose instead to play the “I’m offended!” card. If this is allowed to fly, well, then anyone can be offended by anything, and argument and debate is dead here.
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        When one sides entire argument was "this flyer apparently exists," criticizing the rebuttal for killing the debate seems silly. They did not try to debate or present a real argument in the first place, though they have since somewhat fixed that.
        teddyh 4y ago
        I didn’t criticize the rebuttal for killing this debate, since this debate is immaterial, and the PDF is easily debunked. I criticize people killing the idea of debate with “I’m offended” rebuttals.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    That... is not anyhow related to the discussion, nor an argument for/against anything on this page. And thank you for your ancestors bravery.
    - azinman2 4y ago
      Did you read the page that the GP specifically called out? And yes, none of it is related to MKUltra or the linked topic… which makes it all the more infuriating that this comment is still up and not flagged for removal.
      - saiya-jin 4y ago
        Yes that site is antisemitic and is not even trying to hide it. I was just referring to comment that didn't even bother to read the document. Page 119 of that doc doesn't refer to anything re MKUltra or docs disposal, just some unverifiable antisemitic gibberish. Unfortunately I can't report that post even with karma above 3500, hopefully somebody else can
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Are you sure? To flag comments, you need to click the part that says "x minutes/hours/days ago" and then flag will appear. I flagged the comment hours ago.
    - uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
      I added further context to a sibling comment. Have a good day.
  - uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
    I'm sorry that PDF hurt your feelings. I didn't anticipate that. The notice, as well as other materials associated with it seem rather philo-semetic to me. The reaction to it here implies (to me) that it was likely not intended to be made public. Now that you bring up your grievance about it, though--I do wonder if one of these tools the FBI uses for surveillance is the ADL, as is evident in other declassified documents. You know how the FBI was using Twitter to implement its agendas and goals? Just a thought. Anyhow, I didn't intend to discount anything any individual in your family experienced. The notice and individual experiences are not mutually exclusive, though. The notice is easily verifiable for anyone interested: https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytimes.com/1936/06/26/archives/war-duty-exemption-for-all-jews-urged-conference-of-american-rabbis.html https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytim... My apologies for any hurt feelings. Be well.
    - azinman2 4y ago
      Thank you for this. I appreciate it. The NYTimes article only says something more vague in its headline, but the body is talking about the need for Jews to be more active in social justice work, and that communism is incompatible with Judaism. I’ve read what I could find of the report and all it talks about is social justice work. I’d love to learn more about this. Whatever the context was, we know that a huge amount of jewish soldiers died in WWII as linked by another commenter, so in my mind as a seeming non-sequitor it followed a common anti-Semitic trope that American Jews are more loyal to Judaism and Israel than to the U.S. Of course this has also been the trope for many other immigrants as well. I cannot guess about the ADL other than it being involved a huge amount of other stuff clearly not related to the FBI. Remember that in 1935 Harvard had an official Jewish quota of 15%, and Israel largely exists because the U.S./UK/France didn’t want to take the Eastern European Jewish diaspora — discrimination was widespread at the levels of power. The population was also small, so its hard to imagine it had much value other than perhaps keeping tabs on intellectuals who were friendly to communism.
    - raxxorraxor 4y ago
      Your unsupported claims damage the case against such overreach. You are just helping the FBI to ridicule these accusations. Don't wonder, stick to the facts. You are drifting the topic. Your conclusions are baseless for that matter. This is why they are so easy to ridicule.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  This sounds fake
  - henriquez 4y ago
    It’s not though, the CIA was ordered to release the MKULTRA records but _accidentally_ burned most of them instead.
    - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
      I know about MKULTRA. I meant the Jew thing
      - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
        Haha why did that comment get downvoted? Any downvoters want to explain?
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        Sometimes I feel like people just downvote randomly without fully processing the text or context
  - uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
    It's real: https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytimes.com/1936/06/26/archives/war-duty-exemption-for-all-jews-urged-conference-of-american-rabbis.html https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytim...
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      For a start, those two documents disagree on when the 47th convention happened, one printed in 36 and the other saying it happened in 37. Besides that "Rabbi's push for exption from draft" is fairly different than "Rabbi's made a secret deal, support the war and you won't be drafted. Don't tell the gentiles." Plus, I don't see how this is an example of intelligence agencies doing something and failing to cover it up, so I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place.

uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago

[dead]

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
azinman2 4y ago
I don’t know what the context of this is (or its legitimacy), but what you’re implying is extremely offensive… especially to the Jewish members of my family who did fight in WWII under extremely anti-semitic leadership who would send them on missions first (not last!) that they thought were the most dangerous.
- teddyh 4y ago
  In what reasonable way is what you wrote an argument? Don’t be offended, be refuting.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    They refuted it with anecdotes of their family members serving. If you want more, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Jewish_Americans#World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Jewish_Ame...
    - teddyh 4y ago
      I did not interpret it in that way; I thought it was “That is offensive to me and even more so to these other people I know”. Your point is correct – it can charitably be interpreted as being a form of refutation argument. However, anecdotes about individual people are a very weak form of argument. I could think of a few better arguments immediately from the top of my head: The clumsy wording of the text (in the PDF) itself. The fact that there seems to be no personal testimonies about what is implied to be an extremely widespread conspiracy. And, of course, your link is a much better argument than any individual anecdote. But ‘azinman’ did not do any of that; they chose instead to play the “I’m offended!” card. If this is allowed to fly, well, then anyone can be offended by anything, and argument and debate is dead here.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        When one sides entire argument was "this flyer apparently exists," criticizing the rebuttal for killing the debate seems silly. They did not try to debate or present a real argument in the first place, though they have since somewhat fixed that.
        teddyh 4y ago
        I didn’t criticize the rebuttal for killing this debate, since this debate is immaterial, and the PDF is easily debunked. I criticize people killing the idea of debate with “I’m offended” rebuttals.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  That... is not anyhow related to the discussion, nor an argument for/against anything on this page. And thank you for your ancestors bravery.
  - azinman2 4y ago
    Did you read the page that the GP specifically called out? And yes, none of it is related to MKUltra or the linked topic… which makes it all the more infuriating that this comment is still up and not flagged for removal.
    - saiya-jin 4y ago
      Yes that site is antisemitic and is not even trying to hide it. I was just referring to comment that didn't even bother to read the document. Page 119 of that doc doesn't refer to anything re MKUltra or docs disposal, just some unverifiable antisemitic gibberish. Unfortunately I can't report that post even with karma above 3500, hopefully somebody else can
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Are you sure? To flag comments, you need to click the part that says "x minutes/hours/days ago" and then flag will appear. I flagged the comment hours ago.
  - uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
    I added further context to a sibling comment. Have a good day.
- uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
  I'm sorry that PDF hurt your feelings. I didn't anticipate that. The notice, as well as other materials associated with it seem rather philo-semetic to me. The reaction to it here implies (to me) that it was likely not intended to be made public. Now that you bring up your grievance about it, though--I do wonder if one of these tools the FBI uses for surveillance is the ADL, as is evident in other declassified documents. You know how the FBI was using Twitter to implement its agendas and goals? Just a thought. Anyhow, I didn't intend to discount anything any individual in your family experienced. The notice and individual experiences are not mutually exclusive, though. The notice is easily verifiable for anyone interested: https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytimes.com/1936/06/26/archives/war-duty-exemption-for-all-jews-urged-conference-of-american-rabbis.html https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytim... My apologies for any hurt feelings. Be well.
  - azinman2 4y ago
    Thank you for this. I appreciate it. The NYTimes article only says something more vague in its headline, but the body is talking about the need for Jews to be more active in social justice work, and that communism is incompatible with Judaism. I’ve read what I could find of the report and all it talks about is social justice work. I’d love to learn more about this. Whatever the context was, we know that a huge amount of jewish soldiers died in WWII as linked by another commenter, so in my mind as a seeming non-sequitor it followed a common anti-Semitic trope that American Jews are more loyal to Judaism and Israel than to the U.S. Of course this has also been the trope for many other immigrants as well. I cannot guess about the ADL other than it being involved a huge amount of other stuff clearly not related to the FBI. Remember that in 1935 Harvard had an official Jewish quota of 15%, and Israel largely exists because the U.S./UK/France didn’t want to take the Eastern European Jewish diaspora — discrimination was widespread at the levels of power. The population was also small, so its hard to imagine it had much value other than perhaps keeping tabs on intellectuals who were friendly to communism.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    Your unsupported claims damage the case against such overreach. You are just helping the FBI to ridicule these accusations. Don't wonder, stick to the facts. You are drifting the topic. Your conclusions are baseless for that matter. This is why they are so easy to ridicule.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
This sounds fake
- henriquez 4y ago
  It’s not though, the CIA was ordered to release the MKULTRA records but _accidentally_ burned most of them instead.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    I know about MKULTRA. I meant the Jew thing
    - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
      Haha why did that comment get downvoted? Any downvoters want to explain?
      - kevviiinn 4y ago
        Sometimes I feel like people just downvote randomly without fully processing the text or context
- uog2jeeY3Jaiphu 4y ago
  It's real: https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytimes.com/1936/06/26/archives/war-duty-exemption-for-all-jews-urged-conference-of-american-rabbis.html https://web.archive.org/web/20190220195545/https://www.nytim...
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    For a start, those two documents disagree on when the 47th convention happened, one printed in 36 and the other saying it happened in 37. Besides that "Rabbi's push for exption from draft" is fairly different than "Rabbi's made a secret deal, support the war and you won't be drafted. Don't tell the gentiles." Plus, I don't see how this is an example of intelligence agencies doing something and failing to cover it up, so I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place.