3 ms·

I'm sure you could find some unhappy trip experiences on erowid if you believe it is literally impossible that anyone could have a negative experience.

jungledeuce 4y ago
I had a single terrible experience with dissociatives, to the point that for many many years I had ongoing panic attacks. It was an absolute nightmare for a long time as I was never sure when one might strike. Without data it’s hard to say how dangerous these drugs are, but they are dangerous. People will pipe in with how you need the right setting and mindset and on and on, it’s never the drug it’s always the patient. But even if that’s all true, none of that is objectively verifiable, people will still have terrible, life-changing experiences, and we should better understand the rate at which they will before prescribing it broadly.
htag 4y ago
A piece can be both FUD and true. In fact, often times the more truth that is in the piece the better it can be at sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt. 1. The author admits there was not a long term negative impact on his treatment. 2. People have negative reactions to depression treatments every day. Many of them are much worse. Virtually none of them end up in the washington post. 3. Untreated depression can have a much worse outcome than this treatment had on this patient. 4. This article provides no statistical information required to accurately judge the effectiveness of the treatment, or to compare it to other depression treatments, or to compare it to untreated depression. If this data showed a bleak view of ketamine treatment I think it would have been included in the article, given it's tone.
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Point 4 is untrue. > Where does that leave me? According to reputable studies, ketamine can be life-changing for a significant majority — as much as three-quarters — of those who take it for depression. That leaves 25 percent, like me, who are not so fortunate. > I asked John Krystal, chief of psychiatry and behavioral health at Yale-New Haven Hospital and a leading authority on ketamine use for depression, about my experience. “There is a risk that some patients will have extremely upsetting experiences during treatment [with] ketamine or psychedelics,” he said. “The experience of losing control of the form and content of their thought processes and the altered sensory experiences are, themselves, potentially traumatic experiences.”
electric_mayhem 4y ago
Where did I say that it was “literally impossible that anyone could have a negative experience”? Straw man much?
- emodendroket 4y ago
  If the very fact that someone tried it and had a negative experience is dubious in your mind then that would follow.

jungledeuce 4y ago

I had a single terrible experience with dissociatives, to the point that for many many years I had ongoing panic attacks. It was an absolute nightmare for a long time as I was never sure when one might strike. Without data it’s hard to say how dangerous these drugs are, but they are dangerous. People will pipe in with how you need the right setting and mindset and on and on, it’s never the drug it’s always the patient. But even if that’s all true, none of that is objectively verifiable, people will still have terrible, life-changing experiences, and we should better understand the rate at which they will before prescribing it broadly.

htag 4y ago

A piece can be both FUD and true. In fact, often times the more truth that is in the piece the better it can be at sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt. 1. The author admits there was not a long term negative impact on his treatment. 2. People have negative reactions to depression treatments every day. Many of them are much worse. Virtually none of them end up in the washington post. 3. Untreated depression can have a much worse outcome than this treatment had on this patient. 4. This article provides no statistical information required to accurately judge the effectiveness of the treatment, or to compare it to other depression treatments, or to compare it to untreated depression. If this data showed a bleak view of ketamine treatment I think it would have been included in the article, given it's tone.

emodendroket 4y ago
Point 4 is untrue. > Where does that leave me? According to reputable studies, ketamine can be life-changing for a significant majority — as much as three-quarters — of those who take it for depression. That leaves 25 percent, like me, who are not so fortunate. > I asked John Krystal, chief of psychiatry and behavioral health at Yale-New Haven Hospital and a leading authority on ketamine use for depression, about my experience. “There is a risk that some patients will have extremely upsetting experiences during treatment [with] ketamine or psychedelics,” he said. “The experience of losing control of the form and content of their thought processes and the altered sensory experiences are, themselves, potentially traumatic experiences.”

electric_mayhem 4y ago

Where did I say that it was “literally impossible that anyone could have a negative experience”? Straw man much?

emodendroket 4y ago
If the very fact that someone tried it and had a negative experience is dubious in your mind then that would follow.