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> However, if you’re away from home and plug one of these devices into the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or us

by thayne 4y ago

> However, if you’re away from home and plug one of these devices into the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*, you need to be covered by a separate TV Licence at that address It always amazes me how absurd laws can be (assuming that is an accurate interpretation of the law)

manojlds 4y ago
The absurdity is more that even if you watch a channel broadcast on YouTube you still need to pay. Even if the channel is from some other country, you pay to fund the BBC (which is biased against that country in its reports no less)
- incone123 4y ago
  This post would make more sense if you named the station. There is absurdity in being obliged to pay the BBC so you can watch CNA Singapore streamed on YouTube. I doubt you were referring to CNA specifically, just picking an example of live TV on YouTube.
  - madjam002 4y ago
    Any live content online, whether it’s Youtube Live or Twitch or anything else, requires a TV license, so long as it’s a “television programme service”. This is vaguely clarified to depend on: - Whether a service has a regular schedule of programmes - How continuous a service is Editorial control and consistency - The quality of production and editorial values. (source https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/do-i-need-a-tv-licence-twitch-youtube-live/ https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/do-i-need-a-tv-licence-twitch-...) So I imagine most Youtube/Twitch indie content wouldn’t count, but any foreign TV broadcast would. It’s ridiculous.
cynicalsecurity 4y ago
This looks like something you would read in Talmud.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamewar comments and ignoring our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- ycombinete 4y ago
  If someone who does have a tv license for the building plugs yours in for you, it’s okay as well. But they must also unplug it when you leave.
superfrank 4y ago
It sounds absurd, but I can kind of see how it would happen. My guess is that the laws for TV licenses were written before smart phones were a thing. These laws probably have some definition of what a TV like "a screen plugged into a power outlet that can receive live, over the air video" and a smart phone happens to meet that definition when it's plugged in. It takes time and effort to update these laws and no one actually cares enough to do it. Some lawyer at Starbucks noticed this quirk and is covering the companies ass, but at the end of the day, no one actually gives a shit.
- moremetadata 4y ago
  > My guess is that the laws for TV licenses were written before smart phones were a thing. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4/2022-06-10 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4/2022-06-... Communications Act 2003 The legislation hinges on the definition of a TV Receiver. 368Meanings of “television receiver” and “use” (1)In this Part “television receiver” means any apparatus of a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State setting out the descriptions of apparatus that are to be television receivers for the purposes of this Part. (2)Regulations under this section defining a television receiver may provide for references to such a receiver to include references to software used in association with apparatus. [F9(3)References in this Part to using a television receiver are references to using it for— (a)receiving all or any part of any television programme, or (b)receiving all or any part of a programme included in an on-demand programme service which is provided by the BBC,and that reference to the provision of an on-demand programme service by the BBC is to be read in accordance with section 368R(5) and (6).] (4)The power to make regulations under this section defining a television receiver includes power to modify subsection (3). Some businesses dont want the aggravation from the state. However this is where it gets interesting, my interpretation of this law would mean every laptop, tablet and smartphone would need a tv licence if a UK resident and without a tv licence you cant even stream live events off streaming services like Youtube. The BBC also have the legal right to spy on you, in the same way utility companies can without court orders, even tax inspectors have more rights to spy than the police, so considering the BBC journalistic endeavours, this unlegislated right to keep journalist sources secret even from courts, have the BBC got a state legislated licence to hack the world? I'll probably get more hassle on the street for this comment from those around me for pointing the above out. PR goes a long way.

by thayne 4y ago

manojlds 4y ago

The absurdity is more that even if you watch a channel broadcast on YouTube you still need to pay. Even if the channel is from some other country, you pay to fund the BBC (which is biased against that country in its reports no less)

incone123 4y ago
This post would make more sense if you named the station. There is absurdity in being obliged to pay the BBC so you can watch CNA Singapore streamed on YouTube. I doubt you were referring to CNA specifically, just picking an example of live TV on YouTube.
- madjam002 4y ago
  Any live content online, whether it’s Youtube Live or Twitch or anything else, requires a TV license, so long as it’s a “television programme service”. This is vaguely clarified to depend on: - Whether a service has a regular schedule of programmes - How continuous a service is Editorial control and consistency - The quality of production and editorial values. (source https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/do-i-need-a-tv-licence-twitch-youtube-live/ https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/do-i-need-a-tv-licence-twitch-...) So I imagine most Youtube/Twitch indie content wouldn’t count, but any foreign TV broadcast would. It’s ridiculous.

cynicalsecurity 4y ago

This looks like something you would read in Talmud.

encryptluks2 4y ago
[flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamewar comments and ignoring our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
ycombinete 4y ago
If someone who does have a tv license for the building plugs yours in for you, it’s okay as well. But they must also unplug it when you leave.

superfrank 4y ago

It sounds absurd, but I can kind of see how it would happen. My guess is that the laws for TV licenses were written before smart phones were a thing. These laws probably have some definition of what a TV like "a screen plugged into a power outlet that can receive live, over the air video" and a smart phone happens to meet that definition when it's plugged in. It takes time and effort to update these laws and no one actually cares enough to do it. Some lawyer at Starbucks noticed this quirk and is covering the companies ass, but at the end of the day, no one actually gives a shit.

moremetadata 4y ago
> My guess is that the laws for TV licenses were written before smart phones were a thing. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4/2022-06-10 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4/2022-06-... Communications Act 2003 The legislation hinges on the definition of a TV Receiver. 368Meanings of “television receiver” and “use” (1)In this Part “television receiver” means any apparatus of a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State setting out the descriptions of apparatus that are to be television receivers for the purposes of this Part. (2)Regulations under this section defining a television receiver may provide for references to such a receiver to include references to software used in association with apparatus. [F9(3)References in this Part to using a television receiver are references to using it for— (a)receiving all or any part of any television programme, or (b)receiving all or any part of a programme included in an on-demand programme service which is provided by the BBC,and that reference to the provision of an on-demand programme service by the BBC is to be read in accordance with section 368R(5) and (6).] (4)The power to make regulations under this section defining a television receiver includes power to modify subsection (3). Some businesses dont want the aggravation from the state. However this is where it gets interesting, my interpretation of this law would mean every laptop, tablet and smartphone would need a tv licence if a UK resident and without a tv licence you cant even stream live events off streaming services like Youtube. The BBC also have the legal right to spy on you, in the same way utility companies can without court orders, even tax inspectors have more rights to spy than the police, so considering the BBC journalistic endeavours, this unlegislated right to keep journalist sources secret even from courts, have the BBC got a state legislated licence to hack the world? I'll probably get more hassle on the street for this comment from those around me for pointing the above out. PR goes a long way.