5 ms·

Wish I could use this, but Safari only started supporting this as of 15.4, which was released less than a year ago. I'll likely have to wait another 2-3 years u

Wish I could use this, but Safari only started supporting this as of 15.4, which was released less than a year ago. I'll likely have to wait another 2-3 years until our site stops seeing these older Safari browsers. EDIT: looks like Firefox released support around the same time, but my company's Firefox users seem to be all be ok more recent versions.

ec109685 4y ago
Surely there is a polyfill you can use? https://github.com/GoogleChrome/dialog-polyfill https://github.com/GoogleChrome/dialog-polyfill
colordrops 4y ago
What sort of company do you work at where you can't prod your users to upgrade their browsers? Surely this is a security risk. I'm at a company of 100k employees and our small team has no problem telling users they need to upgrade.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  > 100k employees and our small team I’m almost afraid to ask, but what do you think is a large team?
  - zrobotics 4y ago
    My guess is they are a small internal team and their users are company employees. Otherwise, I can't imagine another scenario where that statement makes sense.
    - CSSer 4y ago
      It’s a bit odd though, because I’ve heard plenty of stories with those conditions where that’s still not true. One example is bank software that must run on IE11 because IT refuses to upgrade the equipment and security isn’t a priority because it’s airgapped or something silly like that.
      - KyeRussell 4y ago
        I’m just going assume that they don’t have much variety of experience under their belt.
- stereocodes 4y ago
  What are talking about? Most companies don't do this. Talk about a bubble.
  - CSSer 4y ago
    Maybe it’s sarcasm? On the other hand, the new school does have it pretty good these days with the evergreen browsers, so it could be genuine lack of perspective. Webkit is stubborn and slow moving, but nothing like what we endured with IE, especially since polyfills were not a ubiquitous concept and checking for feature support at runtime was a kind of dark art. I shudder just thinking about user agent strings again. If anything, my daily dose of strange BS these days comes from imposed third-party SaaS vendors rather than browser interop even when accounting for older versions of Safari.
  - ihateolives 4y ago
    We force updates when users have not updated their browser by deadline. Security updates are not optional here.
  - acdha 4y ago
    Most organizations with any sort of audit, insurance, or regulatory requirements do. Updating software is one of the most basic things covered by any security benchmark.
    - zelphirkalt 4y ago
      Maybe internally. If done externally, extorting your users to update their stuff, then it is clearly overstepping the boundaries. Creating awareness is good and necessary, but insisting on another entity, be it a user or another company doing something, because it is in your company's security benchmark, is inappropriate. Quickly silly things, that have no security benefit at all make it into that benchmark and are tried to be forced upon other entities. Suddenly a company will be interested in how you internally handle your SSH keys. Do you make new ones every 3 months? No sorry, every 4 months is too long for our security benchmark.
      - 4y ago
- thayne 4y ago
  In the case of safari, upgrades are tied to OS updates, so upgrading may require updating the entire OS, and in the worst case might require the user to buy a new phone.
- motoxpro 4y ago
  If people can use the entire web in their eyes without having to update their browser (which they can because they haven't had to update yet) EXCEPT for my site, why am I so specially that they need to update specifically for me? Bad UX. Or maybe you're in an industry where it is your job to secure users computers.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    Your last sentence isn't some side note. It's critical. Any browser over a year old is going to be riddled with security issues.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  Most shopping websites or social media come to mind. I use to work in airline web contracting and when doing work for certain countries' national airline booking systems we had to support ie6 until 2019 (gmail had dropped support in 2010 and Microsoft officially EOL'd it in 2016)
  - ihateolives 4y ago
    > certain countries' national airline booking systems Korea?
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    There are also government sites which really need to support all browsers since time immemorial because many people will access them from old and outdated devices.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    The user I was responding to indicated it was internal users though, not a public website.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  I have a newish MBP from 2018. It’s still fast as hell and reliable. I can’t upgrade the OS because it is not supported. I don’t use Safari, but I’m sure there are people out there using a perfectly fine computer that Apple has dropped support for.
  - tomasf 4y ago
    Hmm. Which MBP is that? As far as I can tell, even the oldest and slowest MBP from 2018 can run Ventura.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      Nope. Says it’s not supported when I try to install it. It doesn’t give a reason though. It’s a maxed out Intel unit from 2018, it’s not listed as a supported model for Ventura. When I get home I can get the model number.
  - worksonmine 4y ago
    Is there a valid reason for this? Like their code not running on the hardware anymore or is it just for profit? Do you at least get security updates? Some kid somewhere digs up a rock under gunpoint and we're expected to throw it out as soon as something shinier comes along, disgusting. It's because of companies acting like this we need regulations on support and right to repair.
  - JimDabell 4y ago
    Ventura supports all MacBook Pros from 2017 onwards: https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT213264 https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT213264 As far as I can see, the only possibility for buying a new MacBook Pro in 2018 that can’t run Ventura is if you bought the MacBook Pro Retina (Mid 2015) model, which wasn’t discontinued until mid-2018. All the older MacBook Pros that can’t run Ventura were discontinued in 2017 or earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models#2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models#2015 I think Ventura not supporting a model released more than seven years beforehand is a reasonable cut-off point. But if there are people who want to use an older model with a newer browser, they can use Firefox or Chrome.
- realusername 4y ago
  On a normal system you can update the browser but on iOS you are stuck with the one coming with the OS version you have, you can't really tell them to update their browser because that's not feasible (and yes it's a security risk but there's nothing you can do about it).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Apple recently released “security updates” for the iPhone 5s - released in 2013.
jeroenhd 4y ago
Luckily I've never had to bother with supporting Safari, but isn't one of the only good things about dealing with it that customers generally update Safari relatively quickly? I don't really understand the Safari release schedule myself (browser updates only seem to come with combined operating system updates?) so I don't know what's keeping users from updating their browsers. Are these Apple users all running vulnerable browsers for some reason? I find it nice that Safari <15.4 is still considered a valid target for your company, given that its market share is about that of Firefox (https://caniuse.com/usage-table https://caniuse.com/usage-table). Must be hell to develop for, though. Perhaps the upcoming inclusion of non-Safari browsers on iOS will help users stuck on old versions of the OS use a normal browser so these problems can go away. Chrome and Edge manage to release monthly updates that almost everyone installs so hopefully that option comes available to iOS users as well.
- AceJohnny2 4y ago
  1. How do you get away with not supporting the second-most popular browser? [1] 2. > help users stuck on old versions of the OS use a normal browser Funny, iOS tends to be upgraded further back (ie support older devices), and faster [2], than (say) Android [3], because Apple is aggressive about updating users. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share [3] https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share
  - tpush 4y ago
    If you're developing a desktop browser app for a non-English speaking market, you can ignore Safari oftentimes. E.g. in Germany desktop Firefox has roughly double the market share of Safari.
    - djxfade 4y ago
      But supporting mobile Safari usually gives you desktop Safari support for "free". Not many first world markets you can ignore Safari mobile in.
Synaesthesia 4y ago
Yeah but 15.4 is supported on versions going back to Catalina.
justinph 4y ago
Ran into this on nytimes.com. Ended up using the polyfill. The benefits of dialog are just too great to not use it. So much easier than using other modal libraries or rolling your own.

ec109685 4y ago

Surely there is a polyfill you can use? https://github.com/GoogleChrome/dialog-polyfill https://github.com/GoogleChrome/dialog-polyfill

colordrops 4y ago

What sort of company do you work at where you can't prod your users to upgrade their browsers? Surely this is a security risk. I'm at a company of 100k employees and our small team has no problem telling users they need to upgrade.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
> 100k employees and our small team I’m almost afraid to ask, but what do you think is a large team?
- zrobotics 4y ago
  My guess is they are a small internal team and their users are company employees. Otherwise, I can't imagine another scenario where that statement makes sense.
  - CSSer 4y ago
    It’s a bit odd though, because I’ve heard plenty of stories with those conditions where that’s still not true. One example is bank software that must run on IE11 because IT refuses to upgrade the equipment and security isn’t a priority because it’s airgapped or something silly like that.
    - KyeRussell 4y ago
      I’m just going assume that they don’t have much variety of experience under their belt.
stereocodes 4y ago
What are talking about? Most companies don't do this. Talk about a bubble.
- CSSer 4y ago
  Maybe it’s sarcasm? On the other hand, the new school does have it pretty good these days with the evergreen browsers, so it could be genuine lack of perspective. Webkit is stubborn and slow moving, but nothing like what we endured with IE, especially since polyfills were not a ubiquitous concept and checking for feature support at runtime was a kind of dark art. I shudder just thinking about user agent strings again. If anything, my daily dose of strange BS these days comes from imposed third-party SaaS vendors rather than browser interop even when accounting for older versions of Safari.
- ihateolives 4y ago
  We force updates when users have not updated their browser by deadline. Security updates are not optional here.
- acdha 4y ago
  Most organizations with any sort of audit, insurance, or regulatory requirements do. Updating software is one of the most basic things covered by any security benchmark.
  - zelphirkalt 4y ago
    Maybe internally. If done externally, extorting your users to update their stuff, then it is clearly overstepping the boundaries. Creating awareness is good and necessary, but insisting on another entity, be it a user or another company doing something, because it is in your company's security benchmark, is inappropriate. Quickly silly things, that have no security benefit at all make it into that benchmark and are tried to be forced upon other entities. Suddenly a company will be interested in how you internally handle your SSH keys. Do you make new ones every 3 months? No sorry, every 4 months is too long for our security benchmark.
    - 4y ago
thayne 4y ago
In the case of safari, upgrades are tied to OS updates, so upgrading may require updating the entire OS, and in the worst case might require the user to buy a new phone.
motoxpro 4y ago
If people can use the entire web in their eyes without having to update their browser (which they can because they haven't had to update yet) EXCEPT for my site, why am I so specially that they need to update specifically for me? Bad UX. Or maybe you're in an industry where it is your job to secure users computers.
- colordrops 4y ago
  Your last sentence isn't some side note. It's critical. Any browser over a year old is going to be riddled with security issues.
squeaky-clean 4y ago
Most shopping websites or social media come to mind. I use to work in airline web contracting and when doing work for certain countries' national airline booking systems we had to support ie6 until 2019 (gmail had dropped support in 2010 and Microsoft officially EOL'd it in 2016)
- ihateolives 4y ago
  > certain countries' national airline booking systems Korea?
- dmitriid 4y ago
  There are also government sites which really need to support all browsers since time immemorial because many people will access them from old and outdated devices.
- colordrops 4y ago
  The user I was responding to indicated it was internal users though, not a public website.
withinboredom 4y ago
I have a newish MBP from 2018. It’s still fast as hell and reliable. I can’t upgrade the OS because it is not supported. I don’t use Safari, but I’m sure there are people out there using a perfectly fine computer that Apple has dropped support for.
- tomasf 4y ago
  Hmm. Which MBP is that? As far as I can tell, even the oldest and slowest MBP from 2018 can run Ventura.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    Nope. Says it’s not supported when I try to install it. It doesn’t give a reason though. It’s a maxed out Intel unit from 2018, it’s not listed as a supported model for Ventura. When I get home I can get the model number.
- worksonmine 4y ago
  Is there a valid reason for this? Like their code not running on the hardware anymore or is it just for profit? Do you at least get security updates? Some kid somewhere digs up a rock under gunpoint and we're expected to throw it out as soon as something shinier comes along, disgusting. It's because of companies acting like this we need regulations on support and right to repair.
- JimDabell 4y ago
  Ventura supports all MacBook Pros from 2017 onwards: https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT213264 https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT213264 As far as I can see, the only possibility for buying a new MacBook Pro in 2018 that can’t run Ventura is if you bought the MacBook Pro Retina (Mid 2015) model, which wasn’t discontinued until mid-2018. All the older MacBook Pros that can’t run Ventura were discontinued in 2017 or earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models#2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models#2015 I think Ventura not supporting a model released more than seven years beforehand is a reasonable cut-off point. But if there are people who want to use an older model with a newer browser, they can use Firefox or Chrome.
realusername 4y ago
On a normal system you can update the browser but on iOS you are stuck with the one coming with the OS version you have, you can't really tell them to update their browser because that's not feasible (and yes it's a security risk but there's nothing you can do about it).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 4y ago
  Apple recently released “security updates” for the iPhone 5s - released in 2013.

jeroenhd 4y ago

Luckily I've never had to bother with supporting Safari, but isn't one of the only good things about dealing with it that customers generally update Safari relatively quickly? I don't really understand the Safari release schedule myself (browser updates only seem to come with combined operating system updates?) so I don't know what's keeping users from updating their browsers. Are these Apple users all running vulnerable browsers for some reason? I find it nice that Safari <15.4 is still considered a valid target for your company, given that its market share is about that of Firefox (https://caniuse.com/usage-table https://caniuse.com/usage-table). Must be hell to develop for, though. Perhaps the upcoming inclusion of non-Safari browsers on iOS will help users stuck on old versions of the OS use a normal browser so these problems can go away. Chrome and Edge manage to release monthly updates that almost everyone installs so hopefully that option comes available to iOS users as well.

AceJohnny2 4y ago
1. How do you get away with not supporting the second-most popular browser? [1] 2. > help users stuck on old versions of the OS use a normal browser Funny, iOS tends to be upgraded further back (ie support older devices), and faster [2], than (say) Android [3], because Apple is aggressive about updating users. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share [3] https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share
- tpush 4y ago
  If you're developing a desktop browser app for a non-English speaking market, you can ignore Safari oftentimes. E.g. in Germany desktop Firefox has roughly double the market share of Safari.
  - djxfade 4y ago
    But supporting mobile Safari usually gives you desktop Safari support for "free". Not many first world markets you can ignore Safari mobile in.

Synaesthesia 4y ago

Yeah but 15.4 is supported on versions going back to Catalina.

justinph 4y ago

Ran into this on nytimes.com. Ended up using the polyfill. The benefits of dialog are just too great to not use it. So much easier than using other modal libraries or rolling your own.