6 ms·

I feel like I'm thrown back to the 80s, all this military and fear mongering and propaganda and war.

by lakomen 4y ago

ARandomerDude 4y ago
[flagged]
- Scalene2 4y ago
  You do know that they have done this several times over the last decade or so, right?
  - localplume 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Scalene2 4y ago
      You got a cite detailing the previous events?
- pphysch 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - 10xDev 4y ago
    These articles are making me realise just how much of the HN demographic is Chinese. Either that or simply naive when it comes to international affairs.
    - anon7725 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 4y ago
        "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
    - localplume 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - CyanBird 4y ago
      > simply naive By this "naive" but you are ofc referring to all of the ones worried for high altitude jetstream weather balloons spying on them right?
    - pphysch 4y ago
      You can't be serious
      - 10xDev 4y ago
        16 upvotes tells me many are feeling the same.
mouse_ 4y ago
Except this time, no one under 40 seems to give a shit.
justin66 4y ago
> I feel like I'm thrown back to the 80s, all this military and fear mongering and propaganda and war. I can't imagine what sort of lens you were using to view the last thirty years, such that those were the peaceful, propaganda-free times and all this shit with balloons is troubling.
- Miraste 4y ago
  The 80s is too far back, probably 2003 was the last peak, but since it became clear Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters the war propaganda complex was muted for years. Remember when Romney said Russia was the US's biggest threat in 2012, and Obama mocked him? Now both parties are back in on the war machine with Ukraine and Taiwan, and the propaganda's running at levels we haven't seen for twenty years.
  - justin66 4y ago
    > since it became clear Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters the war propaganda complex was muted for years If it weren't for propaganda, we would have found the will to exit those wars well over a decade ago.
    - ss108 4y ago
      Leaving Iraq earlier would have been fucked up. We would wrecked the country, destabilized it, raised the problem of sectarian warfare, and then bounced. We still basically did that, but at least helped it with ISIS before leaving. As it is, we arguably owe it more. You can see what the result of leaving Afghanistan has been. We should have devoted more resources to nation building there.
  - ss108 4y ago
    Not sure what you think is "propaganda" about concerns about Russian aggression in Ukraine or about China's evils. Even Afghanistan wasn't a matter of propaganda so much as other flaws/isaues, such as overreactivity and hubris.
csomar 4y ago
Both parties seems to be ready for a war. At least, the US seems to want it. Time to prop the propaganda agenda and psychologically prepare the minions.
- DeLeeuw 4y ago
  [flagged]
jeswin 4y ago
For all its flaws, I'd take a democracy over the Soviets in the 80s, or CCP/North Korea today. I can't imagine what the world would have looked like if the Soviets had won the cold war, or if the CCP wins the next.
- darthrupert 4y ago
  95% of humanity would also, if they were given a fair choice and knowledge of all those systems.
- logicalmind 4y ago
  Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -John Kenneth Galbraith
  - scruple 4y ago
    That's funny but under one of these systems the people have a hope of fixing the ineptitude and corruption. Under the other, ehhh...
  - localplume 4y ago
    cute quote, but meaningless. ask anyone who lived in a communist/ex-soviet state which is better. also why [over 100,000 citizens of east germany](https://www.berlin.de/mauer/en/history/victims-of-the-wall/ https://www.berlin.de/mauer/en/history/victims-of-the-wall/) tried to escape, many dying in their attempts. its without a doubt which is better.
- ggm 4y ago
  Most counterfactual fiction in this space has the repressive state continuing to be repressive and normalising "othering" of <bad people> and it's a well trodden path. Robert Harris, Len Deighton, Ira Levin, Yevgeny Zamyatin. Harry Harrison, Ward Moore. Winning under MAD is moot. There undoubtedly will be losers at scale. Historians differ if forcing the soviets to bankruptcy was necessarily better than a rapprochement. It worked, sure but like the end of ww1 gave birth to stab in the back rightist views of history, the FSU is now a kleptocracy and minor fights in Africa and the Middle east are now entrenched social cancers. Afghanistan and the role of US funds to Pakistan on the region. Not a net benefit all told.
UberFly 4y ago
Never mind the 80s, I feel like I'm thrown back into the 1950s with all this talk of surveillance balloons. What kind of oddball nonsense is China playing. Haven't they heard of satellites?

I feel like I'm thrown back to the 80s, all this military and fear mongering and propaganda and war.

ARandomerDude 4y ago

[flagged]

Scalene2 4y ago
You do know that they have done this several times over the last decade or so, right?
- localplume 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Scalene2 4y ago
    You got a cite detailing the previous events?
pphysch 4y ago
[flagged]
- 10xDev 4y ago
  These articles are making me realise just how much of the HN demographic is Chinese. Either that or simply naive when it comes to international affairs.
  - anon7725 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 4y ago
      "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
  - localplume 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - CyanBird 4y ago
    > simply naive By this "naive" but you are ofc referring to all of the ones worried for high altitude jetstream weather balloons spying on them right?
  - pphysch 4y ago
    You can't be serious
    - 10xDev 4y ago
      16 upvotes tells me many are feeling the same.

mouse_ 4y ago

Except this time, no one under 40 seems to give a shit.

justin66 4y ago

> I feel like I'm thrown back to the 80s, all this military and fear mongering and propaganda and war. I can't imagine what sort of lens you were using to view the last thirty years, such that those were the peaceful, propaganda-free times and all this shit with balloons is troubling.

Miraste 4y ago
The 80s is too far back, probably 2003 was the last peak, but since it became clear Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters the war propaganda complex was muted for years. Remember when Romney said Russia was the US's biggest threat in 2012, and Obama mocked him? Now both parties are back in on the war machine with Ukraine and Taiwan, and the propaganda's running at levels we haven't seen for twenty years.
- justin66 4y ago
  > since it became clear Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters the war propaganda complex was muted for years If it weren't for propaganda, we would have found the will to exit those wars well over a decade ago.
  - ss108 4y ago
    Leaving Iraq earlier would have been fucked up. We would wrecked the country, destabilized it, raised the problem of sectarian warfare, and then bounced. We still basically did that, but at least helped it with ISIS before leaving. As it is, we arguably owe it more. You can see what the result of leaving Afghanistan has been. We should have devoted more resources to nation building there.
- ss108 4y ago
  Not sure what you think is "propaganda" about concerns about Russian aggression in Ukraine or about China's evils. Even Afghanistan wasn't a matter of propaganda so much as other flaws/isaues, such as overreactivity and hubris.

csomar 4y ago

Both parties seems to be ready for a war. At least, the US seems to want it. Time to prop the propaganda agenda and psychologically prepare the minions.

DeLeeuw 4y ago
[flagged]

jeswin 4y ago

For all its flaws, I'd take a democracy over the Soviets in the 80s, or CCP/North Korea today. I can't imagine what the world would have looked like if the Soviets had won the cold war, or if the CCP wins the next.

darthrupert 4y ago
95% of humanity would also, if they were given a fair choice and knowledge of all those systems.
logicalmind 4y ago
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -John Kenneth Galbraith
- scruple 4y ago
  That's funny but under one of these systems the people have a hope of fixing the ineptitude and corruption. Under the other, ehhh...
- localplume 4y ago
  cute quote, but meaningless. ask anyone who lived in a communist/ex-soviet state which is better. also why [over 100,000 citizens of east germany](https://www.berlin.de/mauer/en/history/victims-of-the-wall/ https://www.berlin.de/mauer/en/history/victims-of-the-wall/) tried to escape, many dying in their attempts. its without a doubt which is better.
ggm 4y ago
Most counterfactual fiction in this space has the repressive state continuing to be repressive and normalising "othering" of <bad people> and it's a well trodden path. Robert Harris, Len Deighton, Ira Levin, Yevgeny Zamyatin. Harry Harrison, Ward Moore. Winning under MAD is moot. There undoubtedly will be losers at scale. Historians differ if forcing the soviets to bankruptcy was necessarily better than a rapprochement. It worked, sure but like the end of ww1 gave birth to stab in the back rightist views of history, the FSU is now a kleptocracy and minor fights in Africa and the Middle east are now entrenched social cancers. Afghanistan and the role of US funds to Pakistan on the region. Not a net benefit all told.

UberFly 4y ago

Never mind the 80s, I feel like I'm thrown back into the 1950s with all this talk of surveillance balloons. What kind of oddball nonsense is China playing. Haven't they heard of satellites?