9 ms·

It is _super_ weird how little attention this derailment seems to be attracting.

by jprd 4y ago

adamnemecek 4y ago
They are locking up journalists so it's not that surprising.
- arp242 4y ago
  Who is locking up journalists?
  - dhbanes 4y ago
    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/09/us/newsnation-reporter-arrest-evan-lambert-ohio/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/09/us/newsnation-reporter-ar...
    - arp242 4y ago
      Things like "he was told to stop speaking during the governor's remarks" and "asked Lambert to stop his live reporting because they believed it was loud and disruptive" seems to indicate it's a situation escalating because ... I don't know, I wasn't there, and there doesn't seem to be any footage of these incidents. Hard to tell who is "at fault".
      - emodendroket 4y ago
        I think the PR desk of the people accused of improperly arresting a journalist may not be an entirely neutral source for accounts of what happened.
  - acdha 4y ago
    They’re probably referring to this: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/09/reporter-arrested-ohio-train-derailment-00081999 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/09/reporter-arrested-o...
  - chrononaut 4y ago
    I assume they are referring to this single instance, as it's the only one I could find. https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike-dewine-ohio-aca9f89f4b6afe701aabf9ffd2b53d0f https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike... But within the article: > At the end of his news conference, [Gov. Mike] DeWine said he didn’t authorize the arrest and reporters have “every right” to report during briefings. > “If someone was stopped from doing that, or told they could not do that, that was wrong,” DeWine said. Seems OP's statement is a bit generally misleading statement for a single incident, without also knowing the full details that prompted the arrest in the first place.
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  For reporting on the derailing?!
  - xenospn 4y ago
    Yes
    - chrononaut 4y ago
      A single journalist, among many attendees, being arrested for allegedly being loud in a gymnasium during a news conference is a bit of a stretch to state as evidence that authorities are generally arresting journalists reporting on the derailing.
  - lwansbrough 4y ago
    Parent comment is misleading. See one of the other replies.
- blooalien 4y ago
  Source?
sbelskie 4y ago
I’ve seen a handful of national media outlets cover it without paying any particular attention. What level of attention should this story be getting?
- s5300 4y ago
  Given the fact it’s going to affect things downstream & across state lines… probably at least the level that “Chinese spy balloons” are getting. Might hinge on how bad the first impending acid rain ends up being. I think Jackson Mississippi still doesn’t have clean water, & you haven’t seen that in any headlines for quite some time. Most things that actually matter don’t get very good news coverage, lest people become concerned about how hard they’re being swindled by corporations. Ohio just got completely swindled by JD Vance, so nobody should be surprised when bad things continue to happen to the general populace with zero accountability from those causing it. Also, keep in mind that this is the land of a river (Cuyahoga aka Cleveland) catching on fire at least 15 times. Environmental disasters with no accountability are our groove.
  - auctoritas 4y ago
    How does JD Vance have anything to do with this
    - User23 4y ago
      Here’s my attempt at a steel man: JD Vance is one of the bad guys on the bad guys team. Whenever bad things happen it’s the bad guys’ fault. I’m aware that sounds like a pretty poor alloy, but it’s internally consistent, matches the observables, and I can’t really honestly do better. Edit: The point of this is to explain what this derailment has to do with JD Vance. Any reply that fails to explain why JD Vance is somehow personally involved is failing to do better than the offered steel man. Just generally supporting policies you disagree with merely makes him a bad guy. You do think he’s bad for supporting these policies you believe are bad right? Next you have to show that a freshman senator in the minority who’s been in office for a month is somehow responsible even indirectly. I’d like to see a better effort to steel man that than mine.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
Aren't there several of these situations ongoing at any given time? It has happened twice near some aunts of mine. Train derailments leaking chemicals do not seem that rare.
- morpheos137 4y ago
  Train derailments involving vinyl chloride, a highly toxic, carcinogenic chemical are rare though... Vinyl chloride also known as vinyl monomer is used to make PVC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride
  - fuzzfactor 4y ago
    The Vinyl Chloride Monomer is often referred to as VCM. It is a gas which is liquefied under pressure in a similar way to propane, so tanks and rail cars must be completely airtight at all times. Otherwise the entire liquid cargo will rapidly be expelled under pressure as a liquid from any opening on the bottom of the vessel, or the entire liquid cargo will still evaporate quite rapidly and eventually all escape as a gas stream through defects or open valves on the top part of the vessel. Any VCM liquid spilled will act like propane and rapidly turn into a gas which will disperse much wider through the air much more rapidly. Not much is going to soak into the soil or be carried away by water drainage channels. If it was an acetone spill or something like that it wouldn't evaporate nearly as fast, nor present as widespread an atmospheric content downwind, and you would have to get a lot closer to the spill to detect the vapors or smell it yourself even for a briskly evaporating liquid like acetone. But the VCM is not only flammable, it is actually a highly toxic gas. VCM smells exactly like most brand-new PVC shower curtains, because VCM's exactly what you're smelling in very small concentrations, as any residual monomer often outgasses strongly the first few days after hanging the curtain. In an unventilated bathroom I would think that's often beyond the recognized working VCM levels allowed in industrial facilities.
kevingadd 4y ago
If you search Google News, it's been widely covered - it just falls off the front page quickly in favor of other things.
mc32 4y ago
Given the amount of people affected and the toxicity of the chemicals, you'd think they'd give it commensurate coverage --such as Chinese balloons, Biden documents, Trump documents, Police beatings, etc.
paulmd 4y ago
Which group of the wealthy/powerful would attention to this issue benefit? Like to be clear not only is it not an issue that's going to be addressed, the Biden administration is actually looking at loosening safety regulations further. Republicans are not going to go against industry. It's an industrial state that flagrantly does not care about pollution issues (like building a shopping mall on top of a toxic waste dump level flagrancy) and nobody involved wants to rock the boat right now. https://twitter.com/RebeccaJBurns_/status/1624137139981062151 https://twitter.com/RebeccaJBurns_/status/162413713998106215... https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike-dewine-ohio-aca9f89f4b6afe701aabf9ffd2b53d0f https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike... https://architecturalafterlife.com/2020/07/city-view-center/ https://architecturalafterlife.com/2020/07/city-view-center/ The fundamental underlying issue is there's not enough people to run the trains. The train lines don't want to pay a high enough salary that the supply would meet demand, and DOT weed testing regulations are reducing the pool of eligible applicants as well, pushing that curve downwards further. They've been running fewer and fewer people per train and longer and longer trains, and it's getting unsafe. (it's the same reason freight trains no longer yield to passenger in america despite being statutorily required to - the freight trains are too long for the sidings, oops, guess we can't pull over, you'll have to! Trains have just gotten longer and less staffed and much closer to the safety capacity of the equipment as they get longer and heavier, and this is just one of many exciting ways this is playing out!) There is no way out of this without getting more people into train crews and reducing the size of the trains. The brakes on these trains can't safely stop a train of this length, and the derailleur equipment currently installed can't even safely derail trains of these lengths if they break loose, so when they go they go into a big pile of other cars and you get a massive industrial accident. It is. not. safe. to. run. trains. this. long. You need more crews and larger crews running smaller trains again. This is an issue that has crept up in the last 20 years and become a critical issue in the last 5 years. But pushing back on industry is a big no in America these days, Republicans aren't going to do back a union let alone go against industry (name a single ohio republican that would not have leapt on the framing of "Biden picks unions over rail jobs and christmas") and this isn't the fight the Biden administration wants to pick right now, they want this to go away. They already slapped down the union, which really pissed off quite a few of the base... but what are they gonna do, vote republican? The biden admin wants the trains to run on time so people get their amazon shit. And the local elected officials are on the 'locking up journalists who try to report it' level here, not actually doing anything that would inconvenience industry. And Biden just wants the trains to run on time, he's already made that very clear. So again: which set of powerful people are going to be making a big ruckus in the media? Everyone is OK with this. Ohio is an industrial state, they keep voting in Republicans (even in statewide offices) and fighting against unions. This is what Ohioans collectively signed up for and continue to sign up for every election. Open for business, right? Remember this when Intel wants you to move to Ohio for those new fabs. You're moving to an industrial hellscape and nobody's gonna care if your wife's shopping mall is built on a superfund site or an unsafe train running on a skeleton crew crashes and explodes and dumps a cloud of poison gas into the air. It's Ohio. Let alone any sort of fun genotoxic effect or pregnancy problems in the middle of abortion-war central. And it's not just this one place either, Ohio is a mess of all kinds of industrial shit. Ohio DGAF, is Intel worth your family getting cancer over? Economists have this idea called "revealed preference". The revealed preference here is that winning the War On Egghead Intellectuals, this year's installment of the War On LGBTQ, and the War On Climate Science is more important than not having dead kids. This has been repeatedly been made clear for 3 decades now. And Biden is just past the point where he cares about forcing angry toddlers to do the right thing, he's not gonna deathmatch SCOTUS over this of all things for people who don't even want him to and will frame him as just doing it for the union. People want their fucking amazon packages, they want Dow-Corning and 3M and Duke Coal jobs, if you wanna kill your kids or give them turbocancer so that parcel delivery line-costs go down 5% then nobody's gonna stop you, Amazon thanks you for your service to America's profit margins. Uncle Joe has always been a lot better at politics than people give him credit for, why make drama where none exists? Everyone just metaphorically wants to go have dinner, can we please just not fight about this for once? That's why nobody is talking about it. (Michigan also had that same plating company dump a bunch more hexavalent chromium into the Huron River again, so to be fair Ohio is not alone in midwest toxic spill stories flying under the radar! But it seems likely Whitmer/Nessel will put the hammer down, I am guessing the remediation is going to get a lot quicker and a lot less "voluntary"/"self-reported".)
dv_dt 4y ago
Smaller, less owned news outlets are providing some coverage: https://www.levernews.com/there-will-be-more-derailments/ https://www.levernews.com/there-will-be-more-derailments/
TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
Media too busy reporting on that piece of the sun that fell onto the moon.
TomSwirly 4y ago
It was big news here in Europe when it happened. I was surprised when my American friends didn't know anything about it.
pvaldes 4y ago
>This content is not available in your country/region.

It is _super_ weird how little attention this derailment seems to be attracting.

by jprd 4y ago

It is _super_ weird how little attention this derailment seems to be attracting.

adamnemecek 4y ago

They are locking up journalists so it's not that surprising.

arp242 4y ago
Who is locking up journalists?
- dhbanes 4y ago
  https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/09/us/newsnation-reporter-arrest-evan-lambert-ohio/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/09/us/newsnation-reporter-ar...
  - arp242 4y ago
    Things like "he was told to stop speaking during the governor's remarks" and "asked Lambert to stop his live reporting because they believed it was loud and disruptive" seems to indicate it's a situation escalating because ... I don't know, I wasn't there, and there doesn't seem to be any footage of these incidents. Hard to tell who is "at fault".
    - emodendroket 4y ago
      I think the PR desk of the people accused of improperly arresting a journalist may not be an entirely neutral source for accounts of what happened.
- acdha 4y ago
  They’re probably referring to this: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/09/reporter-arrested-ohio-train-derailment-00081999 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/09/reporter-arrested-o...
- chrononaut 4y ago
  I assume they are referring to this single instance, as it's the only one I could find. https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike-dewine-ohio-aca9f89f4b6afe701aabf9ffd2b53d0f https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike... But within the article: > At the end of his news conference, [Gov. Mike] DeWine said he didn’t authorize the arrest and reporters have “every right” to report during briefings. > “If someone was stopped from doing that, or told they could not do that, that was wrong,” DeWine said. Seems OP's statement is a bit generally misleading statement for a single incident, without also knowing the full details that prompted the arrest in the first place.
actionfromafar 4y ago
For reporting on the derailing?!
- xenospn 4y ago
  Yes
  - chrononaut 4y ago
    A single journalist, among many attendees, being arrested for allegedly being loud in a gymnasium during a news conference is a bit of a stretch to state as evidence that authorities are generally arresting journalists reporting on the derailing.
- lwansbrough 4y ago
  Parent comment is misleading. See one of the other replies.
blooalien 4y ago
Source?

sbelskie 4y ago

I’ve seen a handful of national media outlets cover it without paying any particular attention. What level of attention should this story be getting?

s5300 4y ago
Given the fact it’s going to affect things downstream & across state lines… probably at least the level that “Chinese spy balloons” are getting. Might hinge on how bad the first impending acid rain ends up being. I think Jackson Mississippi still doesn’t have clean water, & you haven’t seen that in any headlines for quite some time. Most things that actually matter don’t get very good news coverage, lest people become concerned about how hard they’re being swindled by corporations. Ohio just got completely swindled by JD Vance, so nobody should be surprised when bad things continue to happen to the general populace with zero accountability from those causing it. Also, keep in mind that this is the land of a river (Cuyahoga aka Cleveland) catching on fire at least 15 times. Environmental disasters with no accountability are our groove.
- auctoritas 4y ago
  How does JD Vance have anything to do with this
  - User23 4y ago
    Here’s my attempt at a steel man: JD Vance is one of the bad guys on the bad guys team. Whenever bad things happen it’s the bad guys’ fault. I’m aware that sounds like a pretty poor alloy, but it’s internally consistent, matches the observables, and I can’t really honestly do better. Edit: The point of this is to explain what this derailment has to do with JD Vance. Any reply that fails to explain why JD Vance is somehow personally involved is failing to do better than the offered steel man. Just generally supporting policies you disagree with merely makes him a bad guy. You do think he’s bad for supporting these policies you believe are bad right? Next you have to show that a freshman senator in the minority who’s been in office for a month is somehow responsible even indirectly. I’d like to see a better effort to steel man that than mine.

throwawaysleep 4y ago

Aren't there several of these situations ongoing at any given time? It has happened twice near some aunts of mine. Train derailments leaking chemicals do not seem that rare.

morpheos137 4y ago
Train derailments involving vinyl chloride, a highly toxic, carcinogenic chemical are rare though... Vinyl chloride also known as vinyl monomer is used to make PVC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride
- fuzzfactor 4y ago
  The Vinyl Chloride Monomer is often referred to as VCM. It is a gas which is liquefied under pressure in a similar way to propane, so tanks and rail cars must be completely airtight at all times. Otherwise the entire liquid cargo will rapidly be expelled under pressure as a liquid from any opening on the bottom of the vessel, or the entire liquid cargo will still evaporate quite rapidly and eventually all escape as a gas stream through defects or open valves on the top part of the vessel. Any VCM liquid spilled will act like propane and rapidly turn into a gas which will disperse much wider through the air much more rapidly. Not much is going to soak into the soil or be carried away by water drainage channels. If it was an acetone spill or something like that it wouldn't evaporate nearly as fast, nor present as widespread an atmospheric content downwind, and you would have to get a lot closer to the spill to detect the vapors or smell it yourself even for a briskly evaporating liquid like acetone. But the VCM is not only flammable, it is actually a highly toxic gas. VCM smells exactly like most brand-new PVC shower curtains, because VCM's exactly what you're smelling in very small concentrations, as any residual monomer often outgasses strongly the first few days after hanging the curtain. In an unventilated bathroom I would think that's often beyond the recognized working VCM levels allowed in industrial facilities.

kevingadd 4y ago

If you search Google News, it's been widely covered - it just falls off the front page quickly in favor of other things.

mc32 4y ago

Given the amount of people affected and the toxicity of the chemicals, you'd think they'd give it commensurate coverage --such as Chinese balloons, Biden documents, Trump documents, Police beatings, etc.

paulmd 4y ago

Which group of the wealthy/powerful would attention to this issue benefit? Like to be clear not only is it not an issue that's going to be addressed, the Biden administration is actually looking at loosening safety regulations further. Republicans are not going to go against industry. It's an industrial state that flagrantly does not care about pollution issues (like building a shopping mall on top of a toxic waste dump level flagrancy) and nobody involved wants to rock the boat right now. https://twitter.com/RebeccaJBurns_/status/1624137139981062151 https://twitter.com/RebeccaJBurns_/status/162413713998106215... https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike-dewine-ohio-aca9f89f4b6afe701aabf9ffd2b53d0f https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-pennsylvania-mike... https://architecturalafterlife.com/2020/07/city-view-center/ https://architecturalafterlife.com/2020/07/city-view-center/ The fundamental underlying issue is there's not enough people to run the trains. The train lines don't want to pay a high enough salary that the supply would meet demand, and DOT weed testing regulations are reducing the pool of eligible applicants as well, pushing that curve downwards further. They've been running fewer and fewer people per train and longer and longer trains, and it's getting unsafe. (it's the same reason freight trains no longer yield to passenger in america despite being statutorily required to - the freight trains are too long for the sidings, oops, guess we can't pull over, you'll have to! Trains have just gotten longer and less staffed and much closer to the safety capacity of the equipment as they get longer and heavier, and this is just one of many exciting ways this is playing out!) There is no way out of this without getting more people into train crews and reducing the size of the trains. The brakes on these trains can't safely stop a train of this length, and the derailleur equipment currently installed can't even safely derail trains of these lengths if they break loose, so when they go they go into a big pile of other cars and you get a massive industrial accident. It is. not. safe. to. run. trains. this. long. You need more crews and larger crews running smaller trains again. This is an issue that has crept up in the last 20 years and become a critical issue in the last 5 years. But pushing back on industry is a big no in America these days, Republicans aren't going to do back a union let alone go against industry (name a single ohio republican that would not have leapt on the framing of "Biden picks unions over rail jobs and christmas") and this isn't the fight the Biden administration wants to pick right now, they want this to go away. They already slapped down the union, which really pissed off quite a few of the base... but what are they gonna do, vote republican? The biden admin wants the trains to run on time so people get their amazon shit. And the local elected officials are on the 'locking up journalists who try to report it' level here, not actually doing anything that would inconvenience industry. And Biden just wants the trains to run on time, he's already made that very clear. So again: which set of powerful people are going to be making a big ruckus in the media? Everyone is OK with this. Ohio is an industrial state, they keep voting in Republicans (even in statewide offices) and fighting against unions. This is what Ohioans collectively signed up for and continue to sign up for every election. Open for business, right? Remember this when Intel wants you to move to Ohio for those new fabs. You're moving to an industrial hellscape and nobody's gonna care if your wife's shopping mall is built on a superfund site or an unsafe train running on a skeleton crew crashes and explodes and dumps a cloud of poison gas into the air. It's Ohio. Let alone any sort of fun genotoxic effect or pregnancy problems in the middle of abortion-war central. And it's not just this one place either, Ohio is a mess of all kinds of industrial shit. Ohio DGAF, is Intel worth your family getting cancer over? Economists have this idea called "revealed preference". The revealed preference here is that winning the War On Egghead Intellectuals, this year's installment of the War On LGBTQ, and the War On Climate Science is more important than not having dead kids. This has been repeatedly been made clear for 3 decades now. And Biden is just past the point where he cares about forcing angry toddlers to do the right thing, he's not gonna deathmatch SCOTUS over this of all things for people who don't even want him to and will frame him as just doing it for the union. People want their fucking amazon packages, they want Dow-Corning and 3M and Duke Coal jobs, if you wanna kill your kids or give them turbocancer so that parcel delivery line-costs go down 5% then nobody's gonna stop you, Amazon thanks you for your service to America's profit margins. Uncle Joe has always been a lot better at politics than people give him credit for, why make drama where none exists? Everyone just metaphorically wants to go have dinner, can we please just not fight about this for once? That's why nobody is talking about it. (Michigan also had that same plating company dump a bunch more hexavalent chromium into the Huron River again, so to be fair Ohio is not alone in midwest toxic spill stories flying under the radar! But it seems likely Whitmer/Nessel will put the hammer down, I am guessing the remediation is going to get a lot quicker and a lot less "voluntary"/"self-reported".)

dv_dt 4y ago

Smaller, less owned news outlets are providing some coverage: https://www.levernews.com/there-will-be-more-derailments/ https://www.levernews.com/there-will-be-more-derailments/

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago

Media too busy reporting on that piece of the sun that fell onto the moon.

TomSwirly 4y ago

It was big news here in Europe when it happened. I was surprised when my American friends didn't know anything about it.

pvaldes 4y ago

>This content is not available in your country/region.