7 ms·

U.S. airspace is pretty wild those last couple of days. Is this "normal" day-to-day activity that previously just never got any attention, or is something rathe

by NikxDa 4y ago

U.S. airspace is pretty wild those last couple of days. Is this "normal" day-to-day activity that previously just never got any attention, or is something rather odd about the amount of these kinds of things in the past few days?

FL410 4y ago
NOTAMs/TFRs are not particularly noteworthy, but this kind of TFR reads like something non-routine and out of the ordinary.
- moose_man 4y ago
  Yeah there is a lot of crazy things happening all at once, some at sea, some with lasers over Hawaii, some with balloons. Not sure what this adds up to. Alone, each incident seems quite manageable but together its sort of overwhelming.
  - iskander 4y ago
    I haven't seen most of these as news stories, where do you learn about what's going on?
    - moose_man 4y ago
      Here (This happened in late January, but Japanese scientists recently figured out what happened) https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinese-satellite-likely-shot-green-laser-wall-over-hawaii https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinese-satellite-likely-shot-... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-12/japan-says-chinese-navy-ship-entered-its-waters-early-sunday https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-12/japan-say... Plus the downing over Alaska and Canada
      - bushbaba 4y ago
        War with china will make Covid look like happy times. Really hope xi backs down a bit.
        wolverine876 4y ago
        The US and China are nowhere near a state of war. The balloons have nothing to do with a state of war. Xi can keep doing exactly what Xi is doing, and there won't be a war. China would have to escalate dramatically.
        roflyear 4y ago
        You or no other person on HN is the authority on this either way. Unless you're one of like 30 people in the US.
        wolverine876 4y ago
        Do you have any evidence that it's connected to a war? I'm not an expert, but I do read them quite a bit. Zero experts are saying that these events have anything to do warfare between the US and China. Can you point one out who does say it?
        rlt 4y ago
        10 seconds of Googling: https://www.memri.org/reports/april-2022-paper-chinas-peoples-liberation-army-military-can-use-balloons-test-enemy-air https://www.memri.org/reports/april-2022-paper-chinas-people...
        wolverine876 4y ago
        That's from April 2022. Whatever they were talking about, it wasn't the balloons.
        rlt 4y ago
    - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      It's sort of everywhere, by the time you find out there's already memes even: https://imgur.com/gallery/tBc4adN https://imgur.com/gallery/tBc4adN
    - xook 4y ago
      Not OP, but I tend to use multiple sources via RSS. Iirc, Live Science covered the laser Hawaii one, and then the balloon stuff I either see on [there], here, or on social media elsewhere (or through friends). RSS is the primary candidate through it all, though. Keeps everything relatively organized.
    - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
      NOTAMs and TFRs are easy to find online and not too hard to learn how to read.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    Are these all Chinese balloons? Are we going to war with the aliens?
    - Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
      Based on no information whatsoever, it's obviously the latter!
      - noduerme 4y ago
        Sure. It's not as weird an assumption when the White House spokespersons are having to repeatedly state that these aren't aliens, while other officials clarify that they're not balloons. I live near enough to PDX to hear the fighter sorties take off. It's normally pretty infrequent that you'll hear a whole series of them. The ones that hunted the object over Montana took off from here on Friday. Heard them again today around noon. Based on no information whatsoever, anything might be true.
        Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
        > Based on no information whatsoever, anything might be true. Agreed, that's the problem right there. An absence of information breeds all sorts of crackpot theories, rarely generated according to Occam's razor. The most prosaic explanations of all of these are that we're looking at balloons, released to study weather, winds etc. However, unless the government releases some images of what they saw, the new-age fringe will immediately jump to the conclusion of little green men from zeta reticuli.
  - jandrewrogers 4y ago
    To some extent, these kinds of things are always going on, though rarely reported, but everyone is just now paying attention so it seems really unusual. What is unusual is that the US is starting to be public about these incursion incidents and taking a more obviously aggressive posture against them. I would view this more as a change of policy by the US government in how they manage these events rather than a change in the number and type of events.
    - spacephysics 4y ago
      While I generally agree that if say, some substation attacks on our power grid throughout the country have been hush hush (not saying it was an attack from a foreign adversary, but given the number of them recently it’s noteworthy), the aerial objects being shot down I think is vastly different, given last time this happened in US airspace was Pearl Harbor
      - vpilcx 4y ago
        > last time this happened in US airspace was Pearl Harbor Didn't this happen in 9/11 with one of the planes?
        Clubber 4y ago
        >Didn't this happen in 9/11 with one of the planes? No, they scrambled F-16's I believe and were given orders to engage compromised aircraft, but they didn't shoot any down. 3 of the 4 planes crashed into buildings and 1 crashed in a field as the passengers attempted to retain control of the aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer
      - anon7725 4y ago
        The WW2 Japanese balloon bombs were later (1944-1945). Some were shot down.
  - neltnerb 4y ago
    Or at least seems that way in terms of coverage now suggesting it's statistically significant. I'm personally more worried about the Southwest not being able to agree to a way to not run out of water. Strange that it stopped being in the news around when that balloon showed up. I honestly think a coincidence, but says something about our priorities.
    - telotortium 4y ago
      The Southwest being out of water is not news, unfortunately.
      - hedora 4y ago
        All states (except one county in California) agreeing to cut usage is, though. Similarly, the GOP agreeing to take bipartisan action now that the Salt Lake is set to disappear in 5 years is new (if it dries out, the resulting dust will poison 1.5-2 million people in Salt Lake City).
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      > coverage now suggesting it's statistically significant. Where is this?
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Overwhelming to who? Do you have some evidence that anyone is overwhelmed? I don't see it's at all overwhelming to the US Defense Department.
    - roundandround 4y ago
      It seems to me like a plan to overwhelm the public by the US defense department. Is it hard to puncture a balloon and examine something forced to descend or is finding something harmless a worse result than a bunch of debris?
      - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        I think that at the height they are at the answer to that question actually is "yes". You're outside of the fighter jet ceiling. I don't think the military has invested much effort into building munitions that can reach 60,000 and don't attempt to destroy their target, not to mention create a controlled puncture that will allow the safe landing of any number of inflated objects.
      - wolverine876 4y ago
        Seems to you? Do you have evidence? What is the difference between this claim and a fabrication?
  - nszceta 4y ago
    Don't forget the Ohio derailment. Few days ago a train carrying hazardous materials derailed in East Palestine, Ohio. Crews have since been burning off the toxic chemicals. Claims that air/water quality are safe are turning out to be false. Evacuation orders are even being lifted as people return to the area. This may also be an asymmetric attack on critical infrastructure by foreign agents in country.
    - rl3 4y ago
      Occam's razor suggests scumbag management at the rail company is more likely of a cause.
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    The other one was the recent crashing of the NOTAM system and the grounding of commercial air traffic. I’m going out on a limb and guessing there is more to the story we aren’t being told about.
tempestn 4y ago
I mentioned in another reply (1), part of it is that they've reduced the filtering of radar signals, resulting in more objects being spotted, but also more false positives. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34759149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34759149
londons_explore 4y ago
Looks like a policy change to me... Previously flying balloons over the US was ignored. Now you're gonna be shot down if you don't have overflight permission. There are plenty of balloons that fly multiple laps of the earth, weather balloons, spy balloons, school project balloons. Some of them are untracked, and most are uncontrollable. Some are house-size, while others are as small as a party balloon.

by NikxDa 4y ago

FL410 4y ago

NOTAMs/TFRs are not particularly noteworthy, but this kind of TFR reads like something non-routine and out of the ordinary.

moose_man 4y ago
Yeah there is a lot of crazy things happening all at once, some at sea, some with lasers over Hawaii, some with balloons. Not sure what this adds up to. Alone, each incident seems quite manageable but together its sort of overwhelming.
- iskander 4y ago
  I haven't seen most of these as news stories, where do you learn about what's going on?
  - moose_man 4y ago
    Here (This happened in late January, but Japanese scientists recently figured out what happened) https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinese-satellite-likely-shot-green-laser-wall-over-hawaii https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinese-satellite-likely-shot-... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-12/japan-says-chinese-navy-ship-entered-its-waters-early-sunday https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-12/japan-say... Plus the downing over Alaska and Canada
    - bushbaba 4y ago
      War with china will make Covid look like happy times. Really hope xi backs down a bit.
      - wolverine876 4y ago
        The US and China are nowhere near a state of war. The balloons have nothing to do with a state of war. Xi can keep doing exactly what Xi is doing, and there won't be a war. China would have to escalate dramatically.
        roflyear 4y ago
        You or no other person on HN is the authority on this either way. Unless you're one of like 30 people in the US.
        wolverine876 4y ago
        Do you have any evidence that it's connected to a war? I'm not an expert, but I do read them quite a bit. Zero experts are saying that these events have anything to do warfare between the US and China. Can you point one out who does say it?
        rlt 4y ago
        10 seconds of Googling: https://www.memri.org/reports/april-2022-paper-chinas-peoples-liberation-army-military-can-use-balloons-test-enemy-air https://www.memri.org/reports/april-2022-paper-chinas-people...
        wolverine876 4y ago
        That's from April 2022. Whatever they were talking about, it wasn't the balloons.
        rlt 4y ago
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    It's sort of everywhere, by the time you find out there's already memes even: https://imgur.com/gallery/tBc4adN https://imgur.com/gallery/tBc4adN
  - xook 4y ago
    Not OP, but I tend to use multiple sources via RSS. Iirc, Live Science covered the laser Hawaii one, and then the balloon stuff I either see on [there], here, or on social media elsewhere (or through friends). RSS is the primary candidate through it all, though. Keeps everything relatively organized.
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    NOTAMs and TFRs are easy to find online and not too hard to learn how to read.
- noduerme 4y ago
  Are these all Chinese balloons? Are we going to war with the aliens?
  - Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
    Based on no information whatsoever, it's obviously the latter!
    - noduerme 4y ago
      Sure. It's not as weird an assumption when the White House spokespersons are having to repeatedly state that these aren't aliens, while other officials clarify that they're not balloons. I live near enough to PDX to hear the fighter sorties take off. It's normally pretty infrequent that you'll hear a whole series of them. The ones that hunted the object over Montana took off from here on Friday. Heard them again today around noon. Based on no information whatsoever, anything might be true.
      - Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
        > Based on no information whatsoever, anything might be true. Agreed, that's the problem right there. An absence of information breeds all sorts of crackpot theories, rarely generated according to Occam's razor. The most prosaic explanations of all of these are that we're looking at balloons, released to study weather, winds etc. However, unless the government releases some images of what they saw, the new-age fringe will immediately jump to the conclusion of little green men from zeta reticuli.
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  To some extent, these kinds of things are always going on, though rarely reported, but everyone is just now paying attention so it seems really unusual. What is unusual is that the US is starting to be public about these incursion incidents and taking a more obviously aggressive posture against them. I would view this more as a change of policy by the US government in how they manage these events rather than a change in the number and type of events.
  - spacephysics 4y ago
    While I generally agree that if say, some substation attacks on our power grid throughout the country have been hush hush (not saying it was an attack from a foreign adversary, but given the number of them recently it’s noteworthy), the aerial objects being shot down I think is vastly different, given last time this happened in US airspace was Pearl Harbor
    - vpilcx 4y ago
      > last time this happened in US airspace was Pearl Harbor Didn't this happen in 9/11 with one of the planes?
      - Clubber 4y ago
        >Didn't this happen in 9/11 with one of the planes? No, they scrambled F-16's I believe and were given orders to engage compromised aircraft, but they didn't shoot any down. 3 of the 4 planes crashed into buildings and 1 crashed in a field as the passengers attempted to retain control of the aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer
    - anon7725 4y ago
      The WW2 Japanese balloon bombs were later (1944-1945). Some were shot down.
- neltnerb 4y ago
  Or at least seems that way in terms of coverage now suggesting it's statistically significant. I'm personally more worried about the Southwest not being able to agree to a way to not run out of water. Strange that it stopped being in the news around when that balloon showed up. I honestly think a coincidence, but says something about our priorities.
  - telotortium 4y ago
    The Southwest being out of water is not news, unfortunately.
    - hedora 4y ago
      All states (except one county in California) agreeing to cut usage is, though. Similarly, the GOP agreeing to take bipartisan action now that the Salt Lake is set to disappear in 5 years is new (if it dries out, the resulting dust will poison 1.5-2 million people in Salt Lake City).
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > coverage now suggesting it's statistically significant. Where is this?
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Overwhelming to who? Do you have some evidence that anyone is overwhelmed? I don't see it's at all overwhelming to the US Defense Department.
  - roundandround 4y ago
    It seems to me like a plan to overwhelm the public by the US defense department. Is it hard to puncture a balloon and examine something forced to descend or is finding something harmless a worse result than a bunch of debris?
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      I think that at the height they are at the answer to that question actually is "yes". You're outside of the fighter jet ceiling. I don't think the military has invested much effort into building munitions that can reach 60,000 and don't attempt to destroy their target, not to mention create a controlled puncture that will allow the safe landing of any number of inflated objects.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      Seems to you? Do you have evidence? What is the difference between this claim and a fabrication?
- nszceta 4y ago
  Don't forget the Ohio derailment. Few days ago a train carrying hazardous materials derailed in East Palestine, Ohio. Crews have since been burning off the toxic chemicals. Claims that air/water quality are safe are turning out to be false. Evacuation orders are even being lifted as people return to the area. This may also be an asymmetric attack on critical infrastructure by foreign agents in country.
  - rl3 4y ago
    Occam's razor suggests scumbag management at the rail company is more likely of a cause.
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  The other one was the recent crashing of the NOTAM system and the grounding of commercial air traffic. I’m going out on a limb and guessing there is more to the story we aren’t being told about.

tempestn 4y ago

I mentioned in another reply (1), part of it is that they've reduced the filtering of radar signals, resulting in more objects being spotted, but also more false positives. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34759149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34759149

londons_explore 4y ago

Looks like a policy change to me... Previously flying balloons over the US was ignored. Now you're gonna be shot down if you don't have overflight permission. There are plenty of balloons that fly multiple laps of the earth, weather balloons, spy balloons, school project balloons. Some of them are untracked, and most are uncontrollable. Some are house-size, while others are as small as a party balloon.