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> I've definitely noticed a trend of people on the spectrum suffering from mental health problems, self-diagnosing as gender dysphoric and then launching themse

> I've definitely noticed a trend of people on the spectrum suffering from mental health problems, self-diagnosing as gender dysphoric and then launching themselves down a one-directional, miserable path that ends in their suicide. Are you saying that the gender dysphoria self-diagnosis was the only factor in the suicide, and without it the mental health problems and difficulties of being neurodivergent in society wouldn't have been an issue? If not, why is it the important one of the three? Every problem a person deals with will contribute to stress and influence their choices, but it feels a little weird to list 3 big challenges and then say "and the last one is why they killed themselves".

AussieWog93 4y ago
>Are you saying that the gender dysphoria self-diagnosis was the only factor in the suicide, and without it the mental health problems and difficulties of being neurodivergent in society wouldn't have been an issue? No, not at all. I think the real reason that so may Autistic people end up depressed, anxious and suicidal is a mix of social difficulties (leading to isolation), coupled with an inability to recognise our own emotional states (making self-care a lot more difficult). The real problem in misdiagosis of gender dysphoria amongst Autistics isn't so much the additional stress caused by transitioning (not just medical issues, but things like the discrimination that non-passing trans people experience too) but the fact that it provides a false solution to the problem of our depression/anxiety. So many young Autistics really, genuinely, believe that the solution to their problem isn't learning the hard way how to achieve a certain level of social success, or ceding some of their independence to people they trust to help manage their physical and emotional needs, but instead hormones and surgery. And once someone's gone down that path, that's it. No coming back.
- kg 4y ago
  It may be reassuring to know that most early and mid-stage trans care interventions are fully reversible, other than surgery and some more powerful forms of HRT. Surgery is pretty late on the road and many people never get surgery. So you don't need to be worried if someone you care about starts seeing a specialist about gender concerns, since at least for quite a few months, nothing serious is going to happen. For younger people it's often preferred to use fully reversible blockers that don't even nudge someone along the transition path, which further reduces the risk of any kind of long-term regret.
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    Honestly, that's not hugely reassuring in the context of what I was talking about. The problem isn't the medical effects but the fact that the certainty a misdiagnosis brings blocks people with mental health issues from actually treating the root of the problem. And this decision, practically speaking, isn't reversible. Once someone on the spectrum decides to go down this path, there's no stopping them. If you have an Autistic kid and they're asking questions about gender, you should absolutely be worried. Hell, I'd be worried about an Autistic 25 year-old.
    - kevingadd 4y ago
      Misdiagnosis are common when trying to get treated for almost any medical issue, because humans are not orderly, rational machines with well defined inputs and outputs. Gender issues are perhaps an easier one to look at and go "I'm pretty sure you got it wrong, doc" because you can look at someone and instinctively think "that's a man" or "that's a woman". But whether it's back pain that's actually caused by an incredibly rare knee cancer or a doctor misdiagnosing the cause of an ultimately harmless migraine, you run the risk of this any time you go to a physician. I've personally lost people I care about to misdiagnosis but it's still just a fact that I decide to accept: Physicians may try hard, but they're not perfect. If a problem isn't severe, that might be a reason to avoid medical intervention so you don't take on that risk. But if you're really struggling to cope or it seems like you might have a serious problem, you should probably see a doctor. If their diagnosis makes you ask more questions, get a second opinion, or a third one! Similarly, basically any surgery has the risk of complications, and lots of interventions we perform on a regular basis have a small but real risk of harm. It's something that comes with medicine, and overall, people live longer and happier lives because medicine usually works out. I postponed wisdom teeth extraction for years because the first dentist I saw about it put the fear of god into me about the terrifying risks of anesthesia, and ended up regretting it because they had to come out eventually anyway. But if I had been that rare statistic to die from anesthesia, maybe it would've been the right choice? I lean towards no, personally. As far as blocking people from treating the root of the problem - while this is a real issue, if the secondary problem is seriously lowering someone's quality of life, there's something to be said for stopping the bleeding (so to speak) long enough to start working on everything else that's causing issues. It's a matter of triage - sometimes root causes simply cannot be dealt with fast enough to postpone dealing with everything else. A non-surgical gender intervention like blockers to get someone onto stable footing for a year or two could be a great step in order to refocus on everything else, and maybe at the end of that time they decide they don't need meds or surgery.

AussieWog93 4y ago

>Are you saying that the gender dysphoria self-diagnosis was the only factor in the suicide, and without it the mental health problems and difficulties of being neurodivergent in society wouldn't have been an issue? No, not at all. I think the real reason that so may Autistic people end up depressed, anxious and suicidal is a mix of social difficulties (leading to isolation), coupled with an inability to recognise our own emotional states (making self-care a lot more difficult). The real problem in misdiagosis of gender dysphoria amongst Autistics isn't so much the additional stress caused by transitioning (not just medical issues, but things like the discrimination that non-passing trans people experience too) but the fact that it provides a false solution to the problem of our depression/anxiety. So many young Autistics really, genuinely, believe that the solution to their problem isn't learning the hard way how to achieve a certain level of social success, or ceding some of their independence to people they trust to help manage their physical and emotional needs, but instead hormones and surgery. And once someone's gone down that path, that's it. No coming back.

kg 4y ago
It may be reassuring to know that most early and mid-stage trans care interventions are fully reversible, other than surgery and some more powerful forms of HRT. Surgery is pretty late on the road and many people never get surgery. So you don't need to be worried if someone you care about starts seeing a specialist about gender concerns, since at least for quite a few months, nothing serious is going to happen. For younger people it's often preferred to use fully reversible blockers that don't even nudge someone along the transition path, which further reduces the risk of any kind of long-term regret.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Honestly, that's not hugely reassuring in the context of what I was talking about. The problem isn't the medical effects but the fact that the certainty a misdiagnosis brings blocks people with mental health issues from actually treating the root of the problem. And this decision, practically speaking, isn't reversible. Once someone on the spectrum decides to go down this path, there's no stopping them. If you have an Autistic kid and they're asking questions about gender, you should absolutely be worried. Hell, I'd be worried about an Autistic 25 year-old.
  - kevingadd 4y ago
    Misdiagnosis are common when trying to get treated for almost any medical issue, because humans are not orderly, rational machines with well defined inputs and outputs. Gender issues are perhaps an easier one to look at and go "I'm pretty sure you got it wrong, doc" because you can look at someone and instinctively think "that's a man" or "that's a woman". But whether it's back pain that's actually caused by an incredibly rare knee cancer or a doctor misdiagnosing the cause of an ultimately harmless migraine, you run the risk of this any time you go to a physician. I've personally lost people I care about to misdiagnosis but it's still just a fact that I decide to accept: Physicians may try hard, but they're not perfect. If a problem isn't severe, that might be a reason to avoid medical intervention so you don't take on that risk. But if you're really struggling to cope or it seems like you might have a serious problem, you should probably see a doctor. If their diagnosis makes you ask more questions, get a second opinion, or a third one! Similarly, basically any surgery has the risk of complications, and lots of interventions we perform on a regular basis have a small but real risk of harm. It's something that comes with medicine, and overall, people live longer and happier lives because medicine usually works out. I postponed wisdom teeth extraction for years because the first dentist I saw about it put the fear of god into me about the terrifying risks of anesthesia, and ended up regretting it because they had to come out eventually anyway. But if I had been that rare statistic to die from anesthesia, maybe it would've been the right choice? I lean towards no, personally. As far as blocking people from treating the root of the problem - while this is a real issue, if the secondary problem is seriously lowering someone's quality of life, there's something to be said for stopping the bleeding (so to speak) long enough to start working on everything else that's causing issues. It's a matter of triage - sometimes root causes simply cannot be dealt with fast enough to postpone dealing with everything else. A non-surgical gender intervention like blockers to get someone onto stable footing for a year or two could be a great step in order to refocus on everything else, and maybe at the end of that time they decide they don't need meds or surgery.