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There's a famous statistic from 2008 in the US that said something along the lines of, for every 1% of unemployment there were 40,000 suicides. That makes unemp

by kodah 4y ago

There's a famous statistic from 2008 in the US that said something along the lines of, for every 1% of unemployment there were 40,000 suicides. That makes unemployment almost as deadly as coronavirus. I don't believe that statistic has changed.

Waterluvian 4y ago
I wonder how the quality of social support systems affects this statistic. That is: perhaps unemployment isn’t the cause, but financial peril is. And maybe half-decent social systems that mitigate financial peril in the face of unemployment could have an effect.
- barrkel 4y ago
  I would say it's less likely to be financial peril (though no doubt that plays a part, especially when e.g. health insurance is required for some expensive treatment), and more likely when a person identifies too much with their job. If you identify too much with your job, losing it is an attack on your ego and it damages your sense of who you are. It's like you died; the role you played in a whole network of social relations is gone. Your status and importance, if you mentally invested yourself in it, is diminished, possibly to irrelevance. You're a nobody. I think this kind of mindset can push someone over the edge.
RA_Fisher 4y ago
Both are unfortunately very deadly and there’s a lot of societal value in preventing both (without inducing more costly trade offs). Covid appears to be killing at a rate of 138,000 per year in just the United States.
Swizec 4y ago
> for every 1% of unemployment there were 40,000 suicides I guess then it’s a good thing that USA is seeing some of the lowest unemployment rates in decades. Unemployment hasn’t been this low since 1969[1]. Even the tech sector where we’re seeing layoffs is doing pretty well. Tech unemployment rate is estimated at 1.8% for January 2023 [2] [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2023/02/07/tech-layoffs-2023-google-amazon/11135692002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2023/02/07/tech...
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Right, but where there is higher-than-normal instability is among the top 25% of earners, so it's difficult to convince people of this on a forum like HN.
kqr2 4y ago
I don't think it's 40,000 suicides but additional deaths : https://www.edhovee.com/edhblog/2020/5/6/more-deaths-from-unemployment-than-covid https://www.edhovee.com/edhblog/2020/5/6/more-deaths-from-un... The actual paragraph of interest from the 2005 book is this: “According to one study [the one by Bluestone et al.], a 1 percent increase in the unemployment rate will be associated with 37,000 deaths (including 20,000 heart attacks), 920 suicides, 650 homicides, 4,000 state mental hospital admissions and 3,300 state prison admissions.” Actually the author of that post thinks the number is higher at 47,500 based on data: And the impact likely is now greater than estimated by Bluestone, Harrison, and Baker nearly 40 years ago. With this updated analysis, a more current estimate appears to be more in the range of 47,500 deaths for every 1% point increase in America’s average annual unemployment rate.

by kodah 4y ago

Waterluvian 4y ago

I wonder how the quality of social support systems affects this statistic. That is: perhaps unemployment isn’t the cause, but financial peril is. And maybe half-decent social systems that mitigate financial peril in the face of unemployment could have an effect.

barrkel 4y ago
I would say it's less likely to be financial peril (though no doubt that plays a part, especially when e.g. health insurance is required for some expensive treatment), and more likely when a person identifies too much with their job. If you identify too much with your job, losing it is an attack on your ego and it damages your sense of who you are. It's like you died; the role you played in a whole network of social relations is gone. Your status and importance, if you mentally invested yourself in it, is diminished, possibly to irrelevance. You're a nobody. I think this kind of mindset can push someone over the edge.

RA_Fisher 4y ago

Both are unfortunately very deadly and there’s a lot of societal value in preventing both (without inducing more costly trade offs). Covid appears to be killing at a rate of 138,000 per year in just the United States.

Swizec 4y ago

> for every 1% of unemployment there were 40,000 suicides I guess then it’s a good thing that USA is seeing some of the lowest unemployment rates in decades. Unemployment hasn’t been this low since 1969[1]. Even the tech sector where we’re seeing layoffs is doing pretty well. Tech unemployment rate is estimated at 1.8% for January 2023 [2] [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2023/02/07/tech-layoffs-2023-google-amazon/11135692002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2023/02/07/tech...

emodendroket 4y ago
Right, but where there is higher-than-normal instability is among the top 25% of earners, so it's difficult to convince people of this on a forum like HN.

kqr2 4y ago

I don't think it's 40,000 suicides but additional deaths : https://www.edhovee.com/edhblog/2020/5/6/more-deaths-from-unemployment-than-covid https://www.edhovee.com/edhblog/2020/5/6/more-deaths-from-un... The actual paragraph of interest from the 2005 book is this: “According to one study [the one by Bluestone et al.], a 1 percent increase in the unemployment rate will be associated with 37,000 deaths (including 20,000 heart attacks), 920 suicides, 650 homicides, 4,000 state mental hospital admissions and 3,300 state prison admissions.” Actually the author of that post thinks the number is higher at 47,500 based on data: And the impact likely is now greater than estimated by Bluestone, Harrison, and Baker nearly 40 years ago. With this updated analysis, a more current estimate appears to be more in the range of 47,500 deaths for every 1% point increase in America’s average annual unemployment rate.