10 ms·
Some data centers are noisy neighbors
- graupel 4y agohttps://archive.is/9RDOi https://archive.is/9RDOi
- blowski 4y agoI can't see how this differs from any other article about a large, dominant employer in an area. It could be a coal-mine, theme park, or university, and there'd be a very similar comments.
- throwayyy479087 4y agoThe Media hates tech for destroying their business model and for now controlling the means of distribution. That's why you see articles like this about data centers but not, say, hospitals - which are WAY worse.
- phphphphp 4y agoThe Media is mostly just a bunch of journalists trying their best to write interesting enough stories to keep their jobs. The stories they're writing are typically a reflection of what they think people care about: in this case, people care about the impact technology is having on us, and this is one aspect of it. The fact that we're here discussing this story proves that it was a good story to write. Suggesting this is a backlash against technology for "controlling the means of distribution" is silly (not least because WaPo is owned by Bezos so they'd be the last participant in an anti-tech conspiracy, if indeed there was one).
- xyst 4y agoSuburbanites get a small taste of what it felt like in the 1950s when poor or predominantly black communities were bulldozed and replaced with massive highways
- geocrasher 4y agoI doubt that those who had their homes bulldozed would agree.
- ronnier 4y agoIf anyone knows a good lawyer, please contact me. I’m dealing with this exact issue. The noise levels are above the city code at night and it’s been going on for over two years with empty promises that it’ll be fixed
- blamazon 4y ago> Part of the issue is related to Prince William’s 33-year-old noise ordinance, which in residential areas like Great Oak limits daytime noise to 60 decibels, or what a normal conversation sounds like from about three feet away, and 55 decibels at night. But the ordinance exempts air conditioners, which are what the data center cooling systems and exhaust fans technically are. Okay, so the real issue is inadequate regulation. Amazon is many negative things but one thing they will do always is stick to the minimum effort required to adhere to the law. Want to change their behavior? Change the law. Enact noise abatement requirements and they will make it happen.
- bayindirh 4y agoMaking low noise, highly efficient, actively cooled heat exchangers is hard. Also, even if you use ARM processors, you use a lot of them, again creating a lot of heat. So at the end, you either need much more heat exchangers, make some noise, reduce capacity or invent better cooling tech. So, changing the law is not enough. You need to motivate right people to innovate, too. Also, on US; good luck trying to change their behaviors through law. This is why companies have lobbyists. Disclosure: HPC admin sitting on top of a datacenter.
- ryanianian 4y agoMaking things very expensive is precisely how to motivate people to innovate.
- robertlagrant 4y agoIt's one of the worst ways. But it is a way.
- notacoward 4y agoSo what's a better way, when persuasion and appeals to conscience have already failed? Surely you don't suggest that raw force is better.
- mschuster91 4y ago> Residents and some local legislators argue that the industry’s footprint in the region is expanding too much, too fast and in the wrong places, posing potential risks to the surrounding environment — and, in some cases, creating noise from cooling fans that disrupt neighborhoods such as Browne’s. Sounds to me like a case of plain bad zoning. Here in Germany, no way that would slide for new zoning - you can't zone noise-generating industry next to residential or mixed zone areas, you need a buffer (usually either undeveloped land or offices) between them. > But the ordinance exempts air conditioners, which are what the data center cooling systems and exhaust fans technically are. And that one a case of plain bad noise emissions regulations. As usual, regulation is widely seen as "why do we need it"... until it affects people personally and all of a sudden they see why regulation is needed. Or to put it bluntly: Who would have thought that a face-eating leopard eats faces?
- xyst 4y agoThese are only symptoms ("bad zoning", " bad noise emissions regulations", ...) of the underlying cause: car centric designed American cities
- mschuster91 4y agoWhile there definitely are issues related to zoning and (from an European POV) utterly brain-dead car centrism - the issue at hand doesn't have to do anything with car centrism, data centers these days are (in-)famous for barely requiring any employment that needs presence of employees and associated car traffic.
- dpkirchner 4y agoI think it's a symptom of the same problem. We've already devalued quality of life by embracing car centrism, so we may as well let noisy DCs set up anywhere.
- linuxftw 4y agoProperty rights could solve this without 'regulation.'
- xyst 4y agoProof that low power, highly efficient computing power needs to become the new standard (ie, ARM). At the same time, I am glad that these NIMBYs and suburbanites get a small taste of what happens when decades of "not in my backyard" and car centric policy comes to bite them in the ass. Nobody wants to be next to the "noisy" data center, but at the same time everybody wants access to the internet. If we had sane city design in the United States of America which emphasized density, walkability, alternative forms of transportation, and accessible and highly available public transportation. Nobody would care if a data center is out in the middle of nowhere. But this is the good ole US of A, where everyone must have a car. Everyone must have their 8000 sq ft fiefdom. Everywhere needs to be accessible by a 2 ton death machine.
- titzer 4y ago> 2 ton death machine. They are pushing 3 tons now; F-150's are topping out at nearly 7,000lbs! https://shift.com/articles/how-much-does-a-ford-f-150-weigh https://shift.com/articles/how-much-does-a-ford-f-150-weigh
- xyst 4y agoEven worse, the "new" Hummer EV is pushing over 9000 lbs or ~4.5 tons. https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-range-battery-pack-and-weight-revealed.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-range-ba...
- blamazon 4y agoI like to imagine/describe this as like driving three 2004 Toyota Camry at one time. Probably you could do that and have it still weigh in below the Hummer. That would make a good YouTube video.
- vinyl7 4y agoThanks to fuel efficiency regulations
- 4y ago
- shanebellone 4y agoThere's a $1 billion datacenter being built alongside 67 hydrogen fuel cells (300 kilowatts per unit) a few blocks away from me. I'm very interested in watching this play out locally.
- nova22033 4y agoPW count isn't the real data center hub in NoVA. That would be Loudoun county/Ashburn. Of course there are people who complain on the local nextdoor but data centers are a big source of revenue for Loudoun county. https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/loudoun-county-fiscal-year-2023-budget-data-center-projected-tax-revenue/65-6ebf2787-0cf2-4c31-90b0-e91776377aaf https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/loudoun-county-fis...
- jeffbee 4y agoYeah 55dB at night, must be nice. I guarantee you these NIMBYs believe it is their God-granted entitlement to drive their cars at 70 MPH down the freeways of Northern Virginia like I-395 and the Beltway, where the 55dB contour extends for hundreds of meters from the centerline of the road, right into the homes of numerous families.
- jeffbee 4y agoBy the way the idea that Loudoun county handles a third of global internet traffic is ridiculous. Some guy from the chamber of commerce said this in the 90's and journalists have been parroting the statement ever since. Sometimes as much as 70%! Since it's not based on reality they can just make up anything.
- ilyt 4y agoThe whole entirety of the problem seems to be politicians allowing them to pop up in same place residental zones are. No doubt because it looked like nice money. > Local jurisdictions can tax the value of the computer equipment inside the buildings without having to provide many government services — giving Northern Virginia a steady stream of funds that, officials say, can go toward schools or affordable housing. That will get the problem "solved" by datacenters leaving.
- fmajid 4y agoThere are some places where data centers have been used as urban heating sources, instead of just venting the waste heat into the atmosphere: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/power-and-cooling/data-centers-leverage-cooling-heat-homes https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/power-and-cooling/data-c...
- shanebellone 4y agoI love this idea. I wondered why this wasn't leveraged by cryptocurrency miners. You could supplement and subsidize heat all winter for any apartment building or office.
- aliqot 4y agoexcept when mining isn't profitable for 3 years out of each decade, and your free heat suddenly shuts off.
- shanebellone 4y agoDoesn't negate the point. Waste can be useful if paired with a complementary system. As I understand it, high efficiency manufacturing can be like this.
- GoldenRacer 4y agoI've definitely seen bitcoin mining heaters on the market. Here's an example: https://bitcoinminingheater.com/ https://bitcoinminingheater.com/ I also saw a post where a guy was using Bitcoin mining to heat his outdoor pool in the winter. Couldn't find that one with a quick search but it's definitely out there if you want to dig.
- shanebellone 4y agoThe heater is really interesting. Obviously, the purchase price is insane unless you're bullish on crypto. I love the concept though. Thanks for sharing.
- 4y ago
- onemoresoop 4y agoAside from having these noise producers in an area that would not bother anyone is there a solution for this problem possible or it's a case of we don't care because that would cut into profits? How would cladding with foam the exhausts or building some sound barriers around these facilities do? I don't know much about this and am just wondering if a solution already exists or is being sought
- vel0city 4y agoData centers don't have to be exceptionally noisy. There's at least ~5~ 9 data centers within 5 miles of my house. One is across the street from my kid's daycare, another is along a bike trail nearby, and both are practically silent compared to just the road noise. Looking on Google Maps a bit closer, there's some along some streets I used to walk my dog, and I didn't even fully realize they were a data center but judging by cooling capacity and power from satellite its pretty obvious. I don't know if its just the operator's decisions in design or zoning requirements that makes that reality for me, but almost all the data centers aren't exceptionally loud from outside the facility grounds.
- madars 4y agoMy immediate first read of the title was acoustic side channels a la https://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tromer/acoustic/ec04rump/ https://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tromer/acoustic/ec04rump/