3 ms·

Crazy but there is no historical evidence (text or images) of psilocybin mushroom use in Europe, prior to 1957. So hard to believe, but we simply don’t have evi

Crazy but there is no historical evidence (text or images) of psilocybin mushroom use in Europe, prior to 1957. So hard to believe, but we simply don’t have evidence otherwise…

culi 4y ago
What exactly does this even mean? The very origins of "Christmas" are from people drinking the piss of reindeer who have consumed Amanita muscaria. Amanita muscaria, while not of the Psilocybe genus, ~~contains psilocybin~~ (EDIT: it contains other psychedelic substances but no psilocybin) but (unlike Psilocybe mushrooms) is poisonous. The poison is neutralized in the reindeer piss so you can consume it to have a fun trip And Psilocybe themselves are global in distribution with hundreds of species. Almost all hallucinogenic and none are poisonous. A quick google search shows we have evidence for magic mushroom use in Europe for at least up to 6k years ago: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest-evidence-for-magic-mushroom-use-in-europe/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest...
- di456 4y ago
  > Amanita muscaria, while not of the Psilocybe genus, contains psilocybe This is misinformation. It contains ibotenic acid and muscimol. The effects are very different than psilocybin containing mushrooms. Reference on the chemical compounds: https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/56112/ https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/56112/
  - culi 4y ago
    Woops edited my comment, thanks. Either way my point was it's a psychedelic mushroom
- riffraff 4y ago
  > The very origins of "Christmas" are from people drinking the piss of reindeer who have consumed Amanita muscaria I never heard of christmas deriving from reindeer, it is commonly associated with winter solstice, but given the first record of the festivity is in Rome in 336CE it seems odd. Maybe you mean the "association of reindeer with christmas", but that seems likely to have originated in the 19th century. Do you have any source?
  - culi 4y ago
    the Siberian shamans’ use of (red and white) fly agaric mushrooms to enter the spirit world is believed to be the source of the Father Christmas myth. And I mean... obviously. A red and white mushroom that can get you high as fuck with the help of some reindeer... https://www.livescience.com/42077-8-ways-mushrooms-explain-santa.html https://www.livescience.com/42077-8-ways-mushrooms-explain-s...
    - riffraff 4y ago
      > the Siberian shamans’ use of (red and white) fly agaric mushrooms to enter the spirit world is believed to be the source of the Father Christmas myth. but the "Father Christmas" in english tradition was green. https://www.ssgreatbritain.org/why-is-our-father-christmas-green/ https://www.ssgreatbritain.org/why-is-our-father-christmas-g...
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  Perhaps that prehistoric cave painting does show psilocybin mushrooms. That makes it even more crazy that there is no historical evidence for their use again until 1957– even though, as you point out— multiple species of psilocybin mushrooms grow pervasively in Europe. Honestly, it would be groundbreaking if one grandma told stories about how her mother used to make mushroom tea. But we don’t have those stories. And, there is nothing in all of the Latin and Greek texts of the past 2500 years. It is a real enigma.
  - culi 4y ago
    I have no idea where the claim that there's "no historical evidence for their use" comes from and would like to see a source (or just evidence that you've done any amount of research before making this claim). I think you might be confused because the term "hallucinogenic" only came of use around the 1950s For example, this paper[0] explores the ethnobotanic use of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Slovenia says > Use of hallucinogenic plants and fungi, believed to extend back thousands of years, is an important part of the human experience > The term hallucinogen first became popular in the 1950s and was originally used as the substances were said to produce hallucinations, though we now know that this is often not the case at lower doses Ancient Greeks drank psychoactive concoctions that contained a mix of psychedelic mushrooms and even reports from the Middle Ages document their use. Clusius (1525-1609), a physician and botanist, discovered ‘bolond gomba’, a mushroom known in Germany as Narrenschwamm or Fool's mushroom, which was used in rural areas to concoct a love potion. ‘Fools mushrooms’ were also documented around the same time in Slovakia, Poland, and in England [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7790546/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7790546/
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      Yes, you can find our investigation here. We scoured the literature for historical reference to psilocybin mushrooms. Also investigating art! That’s what led us to the 118 prehistoric mushroom carvings on Stonehenge. But even these are not psilocybin! https://research.tudelft.nl/en/publications/the-enigma-of-mind-a-theory-of-evolution-and-conscious-experience https://research.tudelft.nl/en/publications/the-enigma-of-mi... Fool’s mushroom also does not have psilocybin.

Crazy but there is no historical evidence (text or images) of psilocybin mushroom use in Europe, prior to 1957. So hard to believe, but we simply don’t have evidence otherwise…

culi 4y ago

What exactly does this even mean? The very origins of "Christmas" are from people drinking the piss of reindeer who have consumed Amanita muscaria. Amanita muscaria, while not of the Psilocybe genus, ~~contains psilocybin~~ (EDIT: it contains other psychedelic substances but no psilocybin) but (unlike Psilocybe mushrooms) is poisonous. The poison is neutralized in the reindeer piss so you can consume it to have a fun trip And Psilocybe themselves are global in distribution with hundreds of species. Almost all hallucinogenic and none are poisonous. A quick google search shows we have evidence for magic mushroom use in Europe for at least up to 6k years ago: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest-evidence-for-magic-mushroom-use-in-europe/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928025-400-earliest...

di456 4y ago
> Amanita muscaria, while not of the Psilocybe genus, contains psilocybe This is misinformation. It contains ibotenic acid and muscimol. The effects are very different than psilocybin containing mushrooms. Reference on the chemical compounds: https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/56112/ https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/56112/
- culi 4y ago
  Woops edited my comment, thanks. Either way my point was it's a psychedelic mushroom
riffraff 4y ago
> The very origins of "Christmas" are from people drinking the piss of reindeer who have consumed Amanita muscaria I never heard of christmas deriving from reindeer, it is commonly associated with winter solstice, but given the first record of the festivity is in Rome in 336CE it seems odd. Maybe you mean the "association of reindeer with christmas", but that seems likely to have originated in the 19th century. Do you have any source?
- culi 4y ago
  the Siberian shamans’ use of (red and white) fly agaric mushrooms to enter the spirit world is believed to be the source of the Father Christmas myth. And I mean... obviously. A red and white mushroom that can get you high as fuck with the help of some reindeer... https://www.livescience.com/42077-8-ways-mushrooms-explain-santa.html https://www.livescience.com/42077-8-ways-mushrooms-explain-s...
  - riffraff 4y ago
    > the Siberian shamans’ use of (red and white) fly agaric mushrooms to enter the spirit world is believed to be the source of the Father Christmas myth. but the "Father Christmas" in english tradition was green. https://www.ssgreatbritain.org/why-is-our-father-christmas-green/ https://www.ssgreatbritain.org/why-is-our-father-christmas-g...
dr_dshiv 4y ago
Perhaps that prehistoric cave painting does show psilocybin mushrooms. That makes it even more crazy that there is no historical evidence for their use again until 1957– even though, as you point out— multiple species of psilocybin mushrooms grow pervasively in Europe. Honestly, it would be groundbreaking if one grandma told stories about how her mother used to make mushroom tea. But we don’t have those stories. And, there is nothing in all of the Latin and Greek texts of the past 2500 years. It is a real enigma.
- culi 4y ago
  I have no idea where the claim that there's "no historical evidence for their use" comes from and would like to see a source (or just evidence that you've done any amount of research before making this claim). I think you might be confused because the term "hallucinogenic" only came of use around the 1950s For example, this paper[0] explores the ethnobotanic use of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Slovenia says > Use of hallucinogenic plants and fungi, believed to extend back thousands of years, is an important part of the human experience > The term hallucinogen first became popular in the 1950s and was originally used as the substances were said to produce hallucinations, though we now know that this is often not the case at lower doses Ancient Greeks drank psychoactive concoctions that contained a mix of psychedelic mushrooms and even reports from the Middle Ages document their use. Clusius (1525-1609), a physician and botanist, discovered ‘bolond gomba’, a mushroom known in Germany as Narrenschwamm or Fool's mushroom, which was used in rural areas to concoct a love potion. ‘Fools mushrooms’ were also documented around the same time in Slovakia, Poland, and in England [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7790546/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7790546/
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    Yes, you can find our investigation here. We scoured the literature for historical reference to psilocybin mushrooms. Also investigating art! That’s what led us to the 118 prehistoric mushroom carvings on Stonehenge. But even these are not psilocybin! https://research.tudelft.nl/en/publications/the-enigma-of-mind-a-theory-of-evolution-and-conscious-experience https://research.tudelft.nl/en/publications/the-enigma-of-mi... Fool’s mushroom also does not have psilocybin.