4 ms·

As someone who spent 12 years of my life in academia (postsecondary, university life), this is nothing like the “culture in academia” I know. This is not even

by epgui 4y ago

As someone who spent 12 years of my life in academia (postsecondary, university life), this is nothing like the “culture in academia” I know. This is not even an excess of leftism (IMO), but rather something much simpler: an excess in stupidity left to self-amplify, largely unmoderated. I don’t think it’s even a social current— rather, I think there has always been very prevalent stupidity, and social currents are changing what the object of focus of this ever-present stupidity is. The author of this post, the only academic involved in the story apparently, doesn’t seem to agree with the stupidity. So I’m not sure how this is all of a sudden perceived to be a problem in academia. I would describe this whole thing, on the contrary, as a complete failure to engage with academic thinking.

jchw 4y ago
I'm struggling to figure out what you are trying to say, but I think what you are mostly taking issue with is the phrasing "culture in academia." Fair enough. I don't really believe all of academia is necessarily like this. Doesn't match my experience either. That having been said, writing this off as "just stupidity" and "[not] a social current" seems too reductive. Just because there's a million poorly-written articles about how "wokeism" is ruining America doesn't mean that there is no discussion to be had about the deeper fringes of ideologies. The truth is that the description of the behavior of those students sounds like situations that I've observed too, not in academics, and while I do believe a majority of people find these situations frustrating, it still seems that nobody has figured out how to reel it in and stop it from happening. Especially the mutiny part. I sincerely do not believe that a majority of people would like to act this way, but I think a majority of people would fear to speak out against it. My best attempt at drawing a conclusion is that people have become very paranoid and distrustful of one another, especially younger folks. I feel a great sense that people are constantly trying to signal that they are one of "the good ones," and maybe even a bit of resentment towards people who don't also put forth effort into signalling this. When it comes to discourse, it feels like even in circles that are less generally flippant, people have resorted to taking eachother at their worst/weakest interpretations when it comes to sensitive issues. Why? I honestly have no idea. I think the rise in mental health issues might account for at least some of it, but I'm not sure if anyone knows for sure why even that is actually happening. I can tell you that I don't believe it is a global liberal "wokeism" conspiracy. (I would, in fact, consider myself to be very liberal, anyways.) Do I have any conclusion or point here? Not really. It provokes a lot of thoughts for me, but I have no idea what to do with them.
rleigh 4y ago
> As someone who spent 12 years of my life in academia (postsecondary, university life), this is nothing like the “culture in academia” I know. This isn't something that just happened overnight. I studied and worked in academia for over 20 years. in 1997 this would have been unheard of. But by 2018 (when I left) there was a noticeable reluctance for people to espouse opinions which would be in opposition to the prevailing groupthink. It's been a long and slow slide, but this is hardly the first time this has been reported upon. It's been a problem for years in the US, and it's just as bad in the UK. I personally think this is a travesty, and a complete perversion of the freedom of thought and diversity of opinion which academia is intended to foster, and it's one of the reasons I would not return to academia. Not being able to speak your mind is like something out of East Germany. But by the time I left, people were so worried about being punished for their opinions that if someone told a joke, there would be a noticeable delay while each member of the audience worked out if it was "acceptable" to laugh at it or not. What kind of environment is that to work in? A terrible one, with little trust in one's coworkers that you won't reported for an "unaccceptable" thought. That's not the environment I started out in.
- epgui 4y ago
  My experience in academia was from 2008 to 2020, roughly. What you describe is alien to me.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    But objectively this is pretty much how universities behave and it isn't just single instances that report the problem. It is pretty widely spread and all indications point to an atmosphere of silencing dissent. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/13/free-speech-is-being-restricted-in-our-academic-in/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/13/free-speech...

by epgui 4y ago

jchw 4y ago

I'm struggling to figure out what you are trying to say, but I think what you are mostly taking issue with is the phrasing "culture in academia." Fair enough. I don't really believe all of academia is necessarily like this. Doesn't match my experience either. That having been said, writing this off as "just stupidity" and "[not] a social current" seems too reductive. Just because there's a million poorly-written articles about how "wokeism" is ruining America doesn't mean that there is no discussion to be had about the deeper fringes of ideologies. The truth is that the description of the behavior of those students sounds like situations that I've observed too, not in academics, and while I do believe a majority of people find these situations frustrating, it still seems that nobody has figured out how to reel it in and stop it from happening. Especially the mutiny part. I sincerely do not believe that a majority of people would like to act this way, but I think a majority of people would fear to speak out against it. My best attempt at drawing a conclusion is that people have become very paranoid and distrustful of one another, especially younger folks. I feel a great sense that people are constantly trying to signal that they are one of "the good ones," and maybe even a bit of resentment towards people who don't also put forth effort into signalling this. When it comes to discourse, it feels like even in circles that are less generally flippant, people have resorted to taking eachother at their worst/weakest interpretations when it comes to sensitive issues. Why? I honestly have no idea. I think the rise in mental health issues might account for at least some of it, but I'm not sure if anyone knows for sure why even that is actually happening. I can tell you that I don't believe it is a global liberal "wokeism" conspiracy. (I would, in fact, consider myself to be very liberal, anyways.) Do I have any conclusion or point here? Not really. It provokes a lot of thoughts for me, but I have no idea what to do with them.

rleigh 4y ago

> As someone who spent 12 years of my life in academia (postsecondary, university life), this is nothing like the “culture in academia” I know. This isn't something that just happened overnight. I studied and worked in academia for over 20 years. in 1997 this would have been unheard of. But by 2018 (when I left) there was a noticeable reluctance for people to espouse opinions which would be in opposition to the prevailing groupthink. It's been a long and slow slide, but this is hardly the first time this has been reported upon. It's been a problem for years in the US, and it's just as bad in the UK. I personally think this is a travesty, and a complete perversion of the freedom of thought and diversity of opinion which academia is intended to foster, and it's one of the reasons I would not return to academia. Not being able to speak your mind is like something out of East Germany. But by the time I left, people were so worried about being punished for their opinions that if someone told a joke, there would be a noticeable delay while each member of the audience worked out if it was "acceptable" to laugh at it or not. What kind of environment is that to work in? A terrible one, with little trust in one's coworkers that you won't reported for an "unaccceptable" thought. That's not the environment I started out in.

epgui 4y ago
My experience in academia was from 2008 to 2020, roughly. What you describe is alien to me.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  But objectively this is pretty much how universities behave and it isn't just single instances that report the problem. It is pretty widely spread and all indications point to an atmosphere of silencing dissent. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/13/free-speech-is-being-restricted-in-our-academic-in/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/13/free-speech...