4 ms·

I used to work in the admissions office of a top 5 school in the US. I was naive and initially shocked by "the list" when I was told about it. A list of appli

by q1w2 4y ago

I used to work in the admissions office of a top 5 school in the US. I was naive and initially shocked by "the list" when I was told about it. A list of applicants who were the children of faculty, staff, very large benefactors, and politicians. They could NOT be denied by any admissions councilor without a very serious reason (eg. convicted of a violent crime). I raised an eyebrow. Then I discovered that that list accounted for a full 25% of EVERY incoming class. Literally hundreds of students per year. I raised the other eyebrow. Then I realized that the constant and extreme push for diversity recruiting was to obfuscate the obvious nepotism and secrecy in admissions. The remaining part of the incoming class had to vastly overachieve diversity metrics so anyone questioning admissions or seeking transparency could be easily demonized for being <insert insult>. They will never ever EVER allow transparency in admissions.

julienchastang 4y ago
> Then I discovered that that list accounted for a full 25% of EVERY incoming class. This is open knowledge. From the WSJ, https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-get-into-the-ivy-league-extraordinary-isnt-always-enough-these-days-11650546000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-get-into-the-ivy-league-extr...: ``` Nearly half of white students admitted to Harvard between 2009 and 2014 were recruited athletes, legacy students, children of faculty and staff, or on the dean’s interest list—applicants whose parents or relatives have donated to Harvard, according to a 2019 study published in the National Bureau of Economic Research. At Harvard, low-income students with top academic scores had an admit rate of 24% compared to 15% for all other applicants, according to a 2013 study by the school. Harvard has said it believes enrolling a diverse student body is important because the school wants students to learn to work with people from different backgrounds. “The middle class tends to get a little bit neglected,” said Hafeez Lakhani, a private college counselor in New York who charges $1,200 an hour. “Twenty years ago, Ms. Younger would have had a good shot at an Ivy League school.” ```
- groffee 4y ago
  It's open knowledge NOW, not when OP discovered it. You clearly wouldn't get into the class.
- nhchris 4y ago
  > Nearly half of white students admitted to Harvard between 2009 and 2014 were recruited athletes, legacy students, children of faculty and staff, or on the dean’s interest list—applicants whose parents or relatives have donated to Harvard, according to a 2019 study published in the National Bureau of Economic Research. Using just "white" is extremely misleading. Harvard undergraduates are already only 40% white [1], but 10% are Jewish [2] (despite being only 2% of the US population). Meaning non-Jewish whites, which are 56% of the US, are only 30% of Harvard undergraduates. For graduate students it's even more ridiculous - 53% Jewish, 28% non-Jewish white. "White privilege" in action. [1] https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/harvard-university/student-life/diversity/#ethnic_diversity https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/harvard-university/s... [2] https://www.hillel.org/college/harvard-university/ https://www.hillel.org/college/harvard-university/
  - naniwaduni 4y ago
    > For graduate students it's even more ridiculous - 53% Jewish, 28% non-Jewish white. Hold up, is this saying that literally over half of the graduate students are Jewish?? Am I reading this right?
    - nhchris 4y ago
      If one filter (not enrolled->enrolled) brings them from 2% to 10%*, it's not beyond possibility that another filter (graduate->undergraduate) would bring another 5x increase. But I'd guess 53% is probably at least a slight over-estimation, and the numbers may not be entirely reliable. Perhaps we should ask for the diversity statistics to count Jewish numbers separately so we could have official numbers, but I suspect that might encounter some resistance :) *For 2015, the Jerusalem Post actually estimates Jews at 25% of undergraduates, but that may be relying on some since-corrected overestimation by Hillel. See https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-most-heavily-Jewish-US-college-and-other-facts-about-Jews-at-American-colleges-437701 https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-most-heavily-Jewish-US-co... and https://ejewishphilanthropy.com/how-many-jewish-undergraduates/ https://ejewishphilanthropy.com/how-many-jewish-undergraduat...
Ekaros 4y ago
And at that point. I think it should be entirely open auction. 25% of incoming class going to highest bidder in order. Then that money would be used to lower tuition of the other 75%.

by q1w2 4y ago

julienchastang 4y ago

> Then I discovered that that list accounted for a full 25% of EVERY incoming class. This is open knowledge. From the WSJ, https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-get-into-the-ivy-league-extraordinary-isnt-always-enough-these-days-11650546000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-get-into-the-ivy-league-extr...: ``` Nearly half of white students admitted to Harvard between 2009 and 2014 were recruited athletes, legacy students, children of faculty and staff, or on the dean’s interest list—applicants whose parents or relatives have donated to Harvard, according to a 2019 study published in the National Bureau of Economic Research. At Harvard, low-income students with top academic scores had an admit rate of 24% compared to 15% for all other applicants, according to a 2013 study by the school. Harvard has said it believes enrolling a diverse student body is important because the school wants students to learn to work with people from different backgrounds. “The middle class tends to get a little bit neglected,” said Hafeez Lakhani, a private college counselor in New York who charges $1,200 an hour. “Twenty years ago, Ms. Younger would have had a good shot at an Ivy League school.” ```

groffee 4y ago
It's open knowledge NOW, not when OP discovered it. You clearly wouldn't get into the class.
nhchris 4y ago
> Nearly half of white students admitted to Harvard between 2009 and 2014 were recruited athletes, legacy students, children of faculty and staff, or on the dean’s interest list—applicants whose parents or relatives have donated to Harvard, according to a 2019 study published in the National Bureau of Economic Research. Using just "white" is extremely misleading. Harvard undergraduates are already only 40% white [1], but 10% are Jewish [2] (despite being only 2% of the US population). Meaning non-Jewish whites, which are 56% of the US, are only 30% of Harvard undergraduates. For graduate students it's even more ridiculous - 53% Jewish, 28% non-Jewish white. "White privilege" in action. [1] https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/harvard-university/student-life/diversity/#ethnic_diversity https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/harvard-university/s... [2] https://www.hillel.org/college/harvard-university/ https://www.hillel.org/college/harvard-university/
- naniwaduni 4y ago
  > For graduate students it's even more ridiculous - 53% Jewish, 28% non-Jewish white. Hold up, is this saying that literally over half of the graduate students are Jewish?? Am I reading this right?
  - nhchris 4y ago
    If one filter (not enrolled->enrolled) brings them from 2% to 10%*, it's not beyond possibility that another filter (graduate->undergraduate) would bring another 5x increase. But I'd guess 53% is probably at least a slight over-estimation, and the numbers may not be entirely reliable. Perhaps we should ask for the diversity statistics to count Jewish numbers separately so we could have official numbers, but I suspect that might encounter some resistance :) *For 2015, the Jerusalem Post actually estimates Jews at 25% of undergraduates, but that may be relying on some since-corrected overestimation by Hillel. See https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-most-heavily-Jewish-US-college-and-other-facts-about-Jews-at-American-colleges-437701 https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-most-heavily-Jewish-US-co... and https://ejewishphilanthropy.com/how-many-jewish-undergraduates/ https://ejewishphilanthropy.com/how-many-jewish-undergraduat...

Ekaros 4y ago

And at that point. I think it should be entirely open auction. 25% of incoming class going to highest bidder in order. Then that money would be used to lower tuition of the other 75%.