5 ms·

Graeber’s last book, The Dawn of Everything, does a great job of dispelling a lot of these “brutal and short” notions as mostly ideological myths.

jhbadger 4y ago
This is the same guy who believed Apple was founded in the 1980s by Republican ex-IBMers using laptops, though.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Graeber’s last book, The Dawn of Everything, does a great job of dispelling a lot of these “brutal and short” notions as mostly ideological myths Anyone casting this as settled science immediately attracts scrutiny. Our data from the epoch are spotty. But there is evidence it was very violent on a per-capita basis [1]. [1] https://stevenpinker.com/reviews-better-angels-our-nature https://stevenpinker.com/reviews-better-angels-our-nature
- haswell 4y ago
  I agree that calling this "settled science" is problematic, but a large point of the book in question is to introduce new evidence from the epoch in question that directly challenges some of the common narratives, especially Pinker's. It's a thought provoking book worth reading.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > new evidence from the epoch in question that directly challenges some of the common narratives, especially Pinker's “Challenges” and “theory” may be better terms than “dispels” and “ideological myths,” then.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      I've noticed more and more often that many commenters on HN simply don't read the parent comment.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        Not sure if directed at my or the preceding comment, but I’d note that the top-level comment states “social abundance” in pre-historic times is “settled anthropology and biology.”
      - kjs3 4y ago
        It's considered rude when someone attempts to speak for the entire reader-base on HN.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        This is the second identical reply you made to one of my comments, so this seems a lot like low effort trolling instead of an honest mistake. The other one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34785689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34785689 It's odd that someone with a 2013 account and a decent posting history would choose to self-destruct like this. So I'm inclined to believe the account got hacked?
- AndrewKemendo 4y ago
  Graeber directly addresses this in the book and in my opinion completely nullifies Pinker's argument
- mharig 4y ago
  Some years ago, I read a scientific article that compared the number of murders per capita in the stone age to nowadays. The authors came to the same conclusion: stone ages where way more violent than the present. But I then calculated/estimated based on the numbers in the article and the assumption of hunter-gatherer groups of 50-100 people, that experiencing a murder in your group in that time was a once-in-the-lifetime chance. I am in my mid-fifties, lived most of my life in a not so poor region in Germany, in a small village, and I know (knew) at least 2 person who got murdered, and a good handful who commited suicide. And I know personally at least 3 person who committed murder. My mother was child in WWII, my father even faught in a 'hot-spot' as an 18 year old, I have heard really many first-hand stories about killing. Furthermore, television is pretending a ridiculous violent world, and I think this does have a really negative influence on peoples mind. Are raw numbers to be valued more than the well-feeling of the people? If a fairy would ask me to choose when to live, I would not hesitate a split-second and choose the pre-neolithic.

jhbadger 4y ago

This is the same guy who believed Apple was founded in the 1980s by Republican ex-IBMers using laptops, though.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Graeber’s last book, The Dawn of Everything, does a great job of dispelling a lot of these “brutal and short” notions as mostly ideological myths Anyone casting this as settled science immediately attracts scrutiny. Our data from the epoch are spotty. But there is evidence it was very violent on a per-capita basis [1]. [1] https://stevenpinker.com/reviews-better-angels-our-nature https://stevenpinker.com/reviews-better-angels-our-nature

haswell 4y ago
I agree that calling this "settled science" is problematic, but a large point of the book in question is to introduce new evidence from the epoch in question that directly challenges some of the common narratives, especially Pinker's. It's a thought provoking book worth reading.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > new evidence from the epoch in question that directly challenges some of the common narratives, especially Pinker's “Challenges” and “theory” may be better terms than “dispels” and “ideological myths,” then.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    I've noticed more and more often that many commenters on HN simply don't read the parent comment.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      Not sure if directed at my or the preceding comment, but I’d note that the top-level comment states “social abundance” in pre-historic times is “settled anthropology and biology.”
    - kjs3 4y ago
      It's considered rude when someone attempts to speak for the entire reader-base on HN.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        This is the second identical reply you made to one of my comments, so this seems a lot like low effort trolling instead of an honest mistake. The other one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34785689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34785689 It's odd that someone with a 2013 account and a decent posting history would choose to self-destruct like this. So I'm inclined to believe the account got hacked?
AndrewKemendo 4y ago
Graeber directly addresses this in the book and in my opinion completely nullifies Pinker's argument
mharig 4y ago
Some years ago, I read a scientific article that compared the number of murders per capita in the stone age to nowadays. The authors came to the same conclusion: stone ages where way more violent than the present. But I then calculated/estimated based on the numbers in the article and the assumption of hunter-gatherer groups of 50-100 people, that experiencing a murder in your group in that time was a once-in-the-lifetime chance. I am in my mid-fifties, lived most of my life in a not so poor region in Germany, in a small village, and I know (knew) at least 2 person who got murdered, and a good handful who commited suicide. And I know personally at least 3 person who committed murder. My mother was child in WWII, my father even faught in a 'hot-spot' as an 18 year old, I have heard really many first-hand stories about killing. Furthermore, television is pretending a ridiculous violent world, and I think this does have a really negative influence on peoples mind. Are raw numbers to be valued more than the well-feeling of the people? If a fairy would ask me to choose when to live, I would not hesitate a split-second and choose the pre-neolithic.