7 ms·

A non-rooted android is pretty useless. I was trying to find a way to disable the volume buttons on my GF's Nexus S, only to find that I with my rooted phone,

by kruhft 15y ago

A non-rooted android is pretty useless. I was trying to find a way to disable the volume buttons on my GF's Nexus S, only to find that I with my rooted phone, could just edit a configuration file, but was completely unable to do it on her non-rooted phone. This is just one example, but I've run into many other hurdles trying to do simple tasks due to the 'security' design they've put into Android. Not having a root account by default on a device is handcuffs, whether it's Android or IOS.

untog 15y ago
Riiight, but disabling the volume buttons on a phone is an extreme edge case in the functionality one might expect from their phone. Non-rooted Android still has 99.9% of the functionality the average user expects. but I've run into many other hurdles trying to do simple tasks due to the 'security' design they've put into Android Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that the average user absolutely needs this security design. They'd probably turn off the volume buttons by mistake then think their phone is broken.
- kruhft 15y ago
  If you keep treating average users as average users they will always be...average users.
  - VMG 15y ago
    If you start treating them as system administrators and software engineers they will be frustrated users. After that they will be users of a competing product.
    - kruhft 15y ago
      Giving the ability to do system administration tasks on a device you own is not treating people like system administrators. It's giving someone the ability to work on, modify and learn about (and break (and fix)) their device if they so choose.
      - kruhft 15y ago
        Yikes, one would think that a site called Hacker News would be a bit nicer to someone talking about enabling people through learning about technology. No wonder I started my own version: http://kruhft.dyndns.org http://kruhft.dyndns.org
        untog 15y ago
        That's a pretty transparent spammy plug for your site, there. I think the general point is that the average user is never going to a sysadmin, and nor is it fair to expect that of them.
        kruhft 15y ago
        I wouldn't say I was spamming but promoting an alternative place where people that think that having root on and having control over your own phone is a good thing and won't get down voted for it. At least that was the point when I wrote the original, as you say spammy, comment.
        kruhft 15y ago
        Reply to untog: yes it's a plug for my site, deal with it. With all the meta-discussion lately about this site and how it's gone downhill, maybe I feel it's time to try and create a new one that lives a bit more up to the name Hacker. No, the average user won't be a sysadmin, but what about their kids? (Oh god, did I just do a think of the children?)
        kruhft 15y ago
        Watching my karma on this conversation has been interesting. It's gone from +10 above to -2 below what it was before. Must be a touchy subject.
        Karunamon 15y ago
        It's got nothing to do with your thoughts as much as the fact that you're blatantly spamming.
jsight 15y ago
Disabling the volume keys likely requires root, but modifying the volume setting does not. The few android applications that need to do this typically listen for volume changes and then change them back. For example, I've seen some kids apps (Zoodle's) that allow a parent to set a max volume.
- kruhft 15y ago
  Yes, I've tried a few for her, and they all don't work as advertised. She always wants the ringer on max, so I figured that I would see if there was a simple way to disable the buttons. Did it on my phone in about 5 minutes as a test (mine is rooted) so I went about to try it on hers. No root, no dice (can't remount /system as rw to edit the file). So then I thought, how about an app for that. Listen for keypresses, set the volume to max, easy peasy. Ha. Services can't listen for keypresses. Apps only listen when they are in focus. All apps are run as their own user and group and the /dev/input devices are not readable by anybody but root or those in the input group. 3 ideas on a simple app, no way to do it without rooting the phone.
  - jsight 15y ago
    Services cannot listen for keypresses, but can't they change the volume? Why not have the service periodically check the volume and reset it to max automatically? Ie, something like: // Get the AudioManager AudioManager audioManager = (AudioManager)this.getSystemService(Context.AUDIO_SERVICE); // Set the volume of played media to maximum. audioManager.setStreamVolume ( AudioManager.STREAM_MUSIC, audioManager.getStreamMaxVolume(AudioManager.STREAM_MUSIC), 0); Unless there are more requirements here that I am missing, this sounds achievable without root.
    - kruhft 15y ago
      Yes, that could be an idea I could try. Thanks.
barrkel 15y ago
RingGuard stops volume buttons having effect on the ring volume until you confirm with a screen tap on a popup dialog. Your example is a very weak premise to hang a conclusion as strong as you have on it. I can make phone calls on my non-rooted android phone, for example; that's a use, and directly contracts your claim of "useless". Less hyperbole would improve your argument.
- kruhft 15y ago
  A program like RingGuard and VolumeLocker don't work in this case, where the phone case causes the volume buttons to get pressed unintentionally, causing the confirmation dialog to basically always be popping up all the time. This type of input behavior also makes the programs not work as intended, hence my desire for a more stable solution. Disabling the volume keys seemed like the best option for this situation. True, I shouldn't have started with 'useless', and yes a non-rooted phone does make phone calls. I guess what I mean to say by 'useless', is that they are useless for those that want to go beyond what is allowed by the default non-root install, security be damned. I am one of those users, and my GF is not, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to work on her phone, especially something so simple as editing a configuration file.
  - barrkel 15y ago
    A non-rooted phone is "useless for those that want to go beyond what is allowed by the default non-root install". Well that's a fine tautology.
lallysingh 15y ago
I'm on my second android phone (Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus), and haven't found a reason to root it yet. I was on an N900 and OpenMoko before them, and a good stock experience is actually quite nice. Honestly this example isn't really selling me. If the phone hasn't been screwed-up by the carrier, what's missing?

by kruhft 15y ago

untog 15y ago

Riiight, but disabling the volume buttons on a phone is an extreme edge case in the functionality one might expect from their phone. Non-rooted Android still has 99.9% of the functionality the average user expects. but I've run into many other hurdles trying to do simple tasks due to the 'security' design they've put into Android Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that the average user absolutely needs this security design. They'd probably turn off the volume buttons by mistake then think their phone is broken.

kruhft 15y ago
If you keep treating average users as average users they will always be...average users.
- VMG 15y ago
  If you start treating them as system administrators and software engineers they will be frustrated users. After that they will be users of a competing product.
  - kruhft 15y ago
    Giving the ability to do system administration tasks on a device you own is not treating people like system administrators. It's giving someone the ability to work on, modify and learn about (and break (and fix)) their device if they so choose.
    - kruhft 15y ago
      Yikes, one would think that a site called Hacker News would be a bit nicer to someone talking about enabling people through learning about technology. No wonder I started my own version: http://kruhft.dyndns.org http://kruhft.dyndns.org
      - untog 15y ago
        That's a pretty transparent spammy plug for your site, there. I think the general point is that the average user is never going to a sysadmin, and nor is it fair to expect that of them.
        kruhft 15y ago
        I wouldn't say I was spamming but promoting an alternative place where people that think that having root on and having control over your own phone is a good thing and won't get down voted for it. At least that was the point when I wrote the original, as you say spammy, comment.
      - kruhft 15y ago
        Reply to untog: yes it's a plug for my site, deal with it. With all the meta-discussion lately about this site and how it's gone downhill, maybe I feel it's time to try and create a new one that lives a bit more up to the name Hacker. No, the average user won't be a sysadmin, but what about their kids? (Oh god, did I just do a think of the children?)
        kruhft 15y ago
        Watching my karma on this conversation has been interesting. It's gone from +10 above to -2 below what it was before. Must be a touchy subject.
        Karunamon 15y ago
        It's got nothing to do with your thoughts as much as the fact that you're blatantly spamming.

jsight 15y ago

Disabling the volume keys likely requires root, but modifying the volume setting does not. The few android applications that need to do this typically listen for volume changes and then change them back. For example, I've seen some kids apps (Zoodle's) that allow a parent to set a max volume.

kruhft 15y ago
Yes, I've tried a few for her, and they all don't work as advertised. She always wants the ringer on max, so I figured that I would see if there was a simple way to disable the buttons. Did it on my phone in about 5 minutes as a test (mine is rooted) so I went about to try it on hers. No root, no dice (can't remount /system as rw to edit the file). So then I thought, how about an app for that. Listen for keypresses, set the volume to max, easy peasy. Ha. Services can't listen for keypresses. Apps only listen when they are in focus. All apps are run as their own user and group and the /dev/input devices are not readable by anybody but root or those in the input group. 3 ideas on a simple app, no way to do it without rooting the phone.
- jsight 15y ago
  Services cannot listen for keypresses, but can't they change the volume? Why not have the service periodically check the volume and reset it to max automatically? Ie, something like: // Get the AudioManager AudioManager audioManager = (AudioManager)this.getSystemService(Context.AUDIO_SERVICE); // Set the volume of played media to maximum. audioManager.setStreamVolume ( AudioManager.STREAM_MUSIC, audioManager.getStreamMaxVolume(AudioManager.STREAM_MUSIC), 0); Unless there are more requirements here that I am missing, this sounds achievable without root.
  - kruhft 15y ago
    Yes, that could be an idea I could try. Thanks.

barrkel 15y ago

RingGuard stops volume buttons having effect on the ring volume until you confirm with a screen tap on a popup dialog. Your example is a very weak premise to hang a conclusion as strong as you have on it. I can make phone calls on my non-rooted android phone, for example; that's a use, and directly contracts your claim of "useless". Less hyperbole would improve your argument.

kruhft 15y ago
A program like RingGuard and VolumeLocker don't work in this case, where the phone case causes the volume buttons to get pressed unintentionally, causing the confirmation dialog to basically always be popping up all the time. This type of input behavior also makes the programs not work as intended, hence my desire for a more stable solution. Disabling the volume keys seemed like the best option for this situation. True, I shouldn't have started with 'useless', and yes a non-rooted phone does make phone calls. I guess what I mean to say by 'useless', is that they are useless for those that want to go beyond what is allowed by the default non-root install, security be damned. I am one of those users, and my GF is not, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to work on her phone, especially something so simple as editing a configuration file.
- barrkel 15y ago
  A non-rooted phone is "useless for those that want to go beyond what is allowed by the default non-root install". Well that's a fine tautology.

lallysingh 15y ago

I'm on my second android phone (Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus), and haven't found a reason to root it yet. I was on an N900 and OpenMoko before them, and a good stock experience is actually quite nice. Honestly this example isn't really selling me. If the phone hasn't been screwed-up by the carrier, what's missing?