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I'm coming from a c++ and functional perspective but this seems very counter intuitive to me. Can you explain why they're bad? My assumption was it's easier to

by pubby 4y ago

I'm coming from a c++ and functional perspective but this seems very counter intuitive to me. Can you explain why they're bad? My assumption was it's easier to reason about objects the less they share.

TechBro8615 4y ago
If you're reaching for deep cloning, your objects are too big. You're passing too much data between functions. The one exception is "actual" data which is (de-)serializable to/from JSON without any special cases (getters, functions, etc). But if it's an object that was programmatically constructed, then it can probably be made smaller. If your object is "deep" because of real nested dependencies, then you should ask why your user would need to mutate it in the first place. If they want to change its internal structure then this is indicative of a code smell because your object is too big and the user cannot accomplish their goal by calling functions exposed by your API. There was a phase in the JS ecosystem a few years ago where everything absolutely had to be immutable. This was, IMO, a horrible side effect of react developers optimizing their props for diffing during reconciliation. Libraries like immer and redux produced a lot of this zealotry. I understand the purism appeal of "immutable everything," and I won't say it has no application, but it has been dogmatically over-applied to the point that you have people googling how to deep clone their config object with a nested function assignment because they're scared of passing a mutable object, and oh my god what if my user mutates it?
- gloryjulio 4y ago
  But in React you never need to deep clone the object? The same principles apply to all the same breed of framework btw, vue/angular etc only updates what you r updating. You are supposed to make a new reference of the object but the fields of would be of the old references except the field you want to update. If you are deep cloning the whole thingy then the performance is actually worse because you r doing unnecessary updates. You could use spread operator to easily make a new object reference. Nowadays you have immerjs to do the grunt work for you
guluarte 4y ago
you'll be surprised a lot of webdevs don't know the difference between a value and a ref type

by pubby 4y ago

TechBro8615 4y ago

If you're reaching for deep cloning, your objects are too big. You're passing too much data between functions. The one exception is "actual" data which is (de-)serializable to/from JSON without any special cases (getters, functions, etc). But if it's an object that was programmatically constructed, then it can probably be made smaller. If your object is "deep" because of real nested dependencies, then you should ask why your user would need to mutate it in the first place. If they want to change its internal structure then this is indicative of a code smell because your object is too big and the user cannot accomplish their goal by calling functions exposed by your API. There was a phase in the JS ecosystem a few years ago where everything absolutely had to be immutable. This was, IMO, a horrible side effect of react developers optimizing their props for diffing during reconciliation. Libraries like immer and redux produced a lot of this zealotry. I understand the purism appeal of "immutable everything," and I won't say it has no application, but it has been dogmatically over-applied to the point that you have people googling how to deep clone their config object with a nested function assignment because they're scared of passing a mutable object, and oh my god what if my user mutates it?

gloryjulio 4y ago
But in React you never need to deep clone the object? The same principles apply to all the same breed of framework btw, vue/angular etc only updates what you r updating. You are supposed to make a new reference of the object but the fields of would be of the old references except the field you want to update. If you are deep cloning the whole thingy then the performance is actually worse because you r doing unnecessary updates. You could use spread operator to easily make a new object reference. Nowadays you have immerjs to do the grunt work for you

guluarte 4y ago

you'll be surprised a lot of webdevs don't know the difference between a value and a ref type