5 ms·

Clickbait headline -- the error was caught during the design phase. At worst, this will cause a 2-3 year delay in building the trains. The more interesting thi

Clickbait headline -- the error was caught during the design phase. At worst, this will cause a 2-3 year delay in building the trains. The more interesting thing about the story is how several top government officials were fired as a result. That would never happen in the US, where decade-long delays are commonplace for train procurement.

Tao3300 4y ago
And that's why I always travel with uBlock.
remote_phone 4y ago
Only 2-3 years? That’s a disaster what do you mean! People need to be kept on the payroll, etc and the entire schedule will have more consequences. That is a huge expense for something that is literally a few clicks on a keyboard. It’s something that should never have happened.
- BigRedDog1669 4y ago
  I think they mean that it is bad, but minor compared to what would have happened in the US or some other countries, where train projects are delayed 10 years without design problems.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    without even commenting on the idea that govt bureaucracy is somehow worse in the US than in the romance countries, a 2-3 year delay would still be added on, and is very significant. it's not like a 10 year delay is great because it gives time to make everything else come out right.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > (...) but minor compared to what would have happened in the US or some other countries (...) That's just speculation to try to mitigate a colossal screwup. This is not the first time when Spanish railway companies are caught trying to cover up the consequences of massive incompetence. For instance, the infamous Santiago de Compostela train disaster[1] was attributed to a careless train conductor going over the speed limit to impress a girl, which was a very convenient scapegoat to both ADIF and Renfe, but in truth the root cause as that both companies failed to deploy a mandatory speed monitoring and control system, which has been standard for decades. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailm...
jackmott 4y ago
[dead]
BoorishBears 4y ago
[flagged]
- Drunk_Engineer 4y ago
  Reading Spanish language sources, I find no reporting that says the firm did any actual work on the project. The delay was due entirely to communication back and forth between Renfe, Adif, and the contractor about what size train to build. The firm notified their customer way back in 2021 about the size discrepancy, and it has taken much time to resolve.
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    Clearly they have been doing work if they notified the customer 2 years ago and are still going back and forth... the way this type of procurement works means that there's massive cost involved in this mistake even if not a single train has been built. If anything you're actually proving the headline even more accurate, since you're making it clear Spain (as in the government) is the one really owning the majority of the incompetence here: when normally it's more of a mix between the firm and the customer
  - petre 4y ago
    > it has taken much time to resolve This is quite typical of state owned companies in Europe.
- handsclean 4y ago
  In correcting a triviality, you’ve been more dishonest than GP and even the headline. GP inflated the confidence of the three year limit. You said that the headline is “exactly right”, while in fact it’s objectively false, the “new trains” it refers to do not exist. You’ve also fabricated 2-3 years of repeated work, which is not backed by this source, would be pretty bizarre if truly nothing could be salvaged, and in fact is apparently contradicted by other sources, which state that the firm worked with bad measurements for only about a year.
  - 4y ago
favaq 4y ago
>The more interesting thing about the story is how several top government officials were fired as a result This is false, government propaganda. https://www.antena3.com/noticias/sociedad/despedido-renfe-polemica-cercanias-estaba-punto-jubilarse-adif-solo-cambiado-puesto_2023020963e52e4f7b624e0001aa1aa1.html https://www.antena3.com/noticias/sociedad/despedido-renfe-po...
madaxe_again 4y ago
Yeah, I’m scratching my head at the British press laughing at them over this, but seemingly not giving two tiny damns that HS2 is now between £4,000,000,000 and £66,000,000,000 over budget depending on whose figures you trust, and counting.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  British Press has been on HS2 quite a bit. Specially when you compare it to the endless highway expansion, those don't get criticized.
  - madaxe_again 4y ago
    True - RIS2 is also running £3,000,000,000 over the £25,000,000,000 budget — while also somehow saying that they can’t spend all of the budget on time. It’s a nonsensical state of affairs. https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/153/transport-committee/news/175205/inquiry-launched-into-strategic-road-investment-in-england/ https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/153/transport-com... https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/transport-bosses-admit-budget-for-new-roads-projects-is-very-limited-due-to-major-overruns-02-02-2023/ https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/transport-bosses-adm...
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      Reduce the high way budget by 90% and invest add the Leeds part of HS2 back. HS2 is 100+ year infrastructure that massively improves the complete rail network of all of England and will allow England to go from backwards in terms of trains to having a fantastic overall network. England is perfect for High Speed Rail, and rail in general. What they are missing is a few more Crossrail style projects (or S-Bahn style as we call it) in cities other then London, and more Crossrail in London. I am advocating the same in Switzerland. We already have a great rail network, but one High Speed Line right across the major population part can improve overall rail infrastructure by a huge amount. Switzerland has rail modal share of ~20% and with a new high speed line and a host of other things, that could be raised to 30-40%. The capacity you gain on all the old lines for regional and cargo travel is huge.
simplotek 4y ago
> Clickbait headline -- the error was caught during the design phase. I don't agree. This is a colossal blunder. Train clearance is a very basic trait of each railway line, along with track gauge. Ordering trains that you cannot even operate in your railway lines is perhaps the biggest screwup any railway operator can possibly make. I'm not sure you fully understand the magnitude of this sort of screwup. Catching the problem in the design stage actually means it took the manufacturer to double-check the contract to realize his client did a gross unrecoverable mistake that resulted in their orders being fundamentally incompatible with their intended use. The only clickbaity aspect of this article was tacking another notorious episode of Spanish mishaps which was their submarine design being fundamentally broken. It reads more like a cheap jab at Spain than anything else.

Tao3300 4y ago

And that's why I always travel with uBlock.

remote_phone 4y ago

Only 2-3 years? That’s a disaster what do you mean! People need to be kept on the payroll, etc and the entire schedule will have more consequences. That is a huge expense for something that is literally a few clicks on a keyboard. It’s something that should never have happened.

BigRedDog1669 4y ago
I think they mean that it is bad, but minor compared to what would have happened in the US or some other countries, where train projects are delayed 10 years without design problems.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  without even commenting on the idea that govt bureaucracy is somehow worse in the US than in the romance countries, a 2-3 year delay would still be added on, and is very significant. it's not like a 10 year delay is great because it gives time to make everything else come out right.
- simplotek 4y ago
  > (...) but minor compared to what would have happened in the US or some other countries (...) That's just speculation to try to mitigate a colossal screwup. This is not the first time when Spanish railway companies are caught trying to cover up the consequences of massive incompetence. For instance, the infamous Santiago de Compostela train disaster[1] was attributed to a careless train conductor going over the speed limit to impress a girl, which was a very convenient scapegoat to both ADIF and Renfe, but in truth the root cause as that both companies failed to deploy a mandatory speed monitoring and control system, which has been standard for decades. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailm...

jackmott 4y ago

[dead]

BoorishBears 4y ago

[flagged]

Drunk_Engineer 4y ago
Reading Spanish language sources, I find no reporting that says the firm did any actual work on the project. The delay was due entirely to communication back and forth between Renfe, Adif, and the contractor about what size train to build. The firm notified their customer way back in 2021 about the size discrepancy, and it has taken much time to resolve.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  Clearly they have been doing work if they notified the customer 2 years ago and are still going back and forth... the way this type of procurement works means that there's massive cost involved in this mistake even if not a single train has been built. If anything you're actually proving the headline even more accurate, since you're making it clear Spain (as in the government) is the one really owning the majority of the incompetence here: when normally it's more of a mix between the firm and the customer
- petre 4y ago
  > it has taken much time to resolve This is quite typical of state owned companies in Europe.
handsclean 4y ago
In correcting a triviality, you’ve been more dishonest than GP and even the headline. GP inflated the confidence of the three year limit. You said that the headline is “exactly right”, while in fact it’s objectively false, the “new trains” it refers to do not exist. You’ve also fabricated 2-3 years of repeated work, which is not backed by this source, would be pretty bizarre if truly nothing could be salvaged, and in fact is apparently contradicted by other sources, which state that the firm worked with bad measurements for only about a year.
- 4y ago

favaq 4y ago

>The more interesting thing about the story is how several top government officials were fired as a result This is false, government propaganda. https://www.antena3.com/noticias/sociedad/despedido-renfe-polemica-cercanias-estaba-punto-jubilarse-adif-solo-cambiado-puesto_2023020963e52e4f7b624e0001aa1aa1.html https://www.antena3.com/noticias/sociedad/despedido-renfe-po...

madaxe_again 4y ago

Yeah, I’m scratching my head at the British press laughing at them over this, but seemingly not giving two tiny damns that HS2 is now between £4,000,000,000 and £66,000,000,000 over budget depending on whose figures you trust, and counting.

panick21_ 4y ago
British Press has been on HS2 quite a bit. Specially when you compare it to the endless highway expansion, those don't get criticized.
- madaxe_again 4y ago
  True - RIS2 is also running £3,000,000,000 over the £25,000,000,000 budget — while also somehow saying that they can’t spend all of the budget on time. It’s a nonsensical state of affairs. https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/153/transport-committee/news/175205/inquiry-launched-into-strategic-road-investment-in-england/ https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/153/transport-com... https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/transport-bosses-admit-budget-for-new-roads-projects-is-very-limited-due-to-major-overruns-02-02-2023/ https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/transport-bosses-adm...
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Reduce the high way budget by 90% and invest add the Leeds part of HS2 back. HS2 is 100+ year infrastructure that massively improves the complete rail network of all of England and will allow England to go from backwards in terms of trains to having a fantastic overall network. England is perfect for High Speed Rail, and rail in general. What they are missing is a few more Crossrail style projects (or S-Bahn style as we call it) in cities other then London, and more Crossrail in London. I am advocating the same in Switzerland. We already have a great rail network, but one High Speed Line right across the major population part can improve overall rail infrastructure by a huge amount. Switzerland has rail modal share of ~20% and with a new high speed line and a host of other things, that could be raised to 30-40%. The capacity you gain on all the old lines for regional and cargo travel is huge.

simplotek 4y ago

> Clickbait headline -- the error was caught during the design phase. I don't agree. This is a colossal blunder. Train clearance is a very basic trait of each railway line, along with track gauge. Ordering trains that you cannot even operate in your railway lines is perhaps the biggest screwup any railway operator can possibly make. I'm not sure you fully understand the magnitude of this sort of screwup. Catching the problem in the design stage actually means it took the manufacturer to double-check the contract to realize his client did a gross unrecoverable mistake that resulted in their orders being fundamentally incompatible with their intended use. The only clickbaity aspect of this article was tacking another notorious episode of Spanish mishaps which was their submarine design being fundamentally broken. It reads more like a cheap jab at Spain than anything else.