5 ms·

Honest question: why are you vaccinating while you also identify as low risk?

7speter 4y ago
> Then I see old folks or one 30y/o woman in the supermarket wearing a mask, and I remember that this protects them too. I have a hard time believing that after 2 years of messaging about why people should take a vaccine that this is an “honest question”
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > I have a hard time believing that after 2 years of messaging about why You must have forgotten that they have been two years of communicational failures.
  - landemva 4y ago
    I just read this January 2023 article by a person with last name Fauci that claims coronaviruses have never been controlled by vaccines. More communication problems or admission of mistakes? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9832587 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9832587 Rethinking next-generation vaccines for coronaviruses, influenzaviruses, and other respiratory viruses David M. Morens, Jeffery K. Taubenberger, and Anthony S. Fauci 'Because these viruses generally do not elicit complete and durable protective immunity by themselves, they have not to date been effectively controlled by licensed or experimental vaccines. In this review, we examine challenges that have impeded development of effective mucosal respiratory vaccines ...'
    - latchkey 4y ago
      > with last name Fauci that claims coronaviruses have never been controlled by vaccines Actually, the full text is: "Viruses that replicate in the human respiratory mucosa without infecting systemically, including influenza A, SARS-CoV-2, endemic coronaviruses, RSV, and many other “common cold” viruses, cause significant mortality and morbidity and are important public health concerns. Because these viruses generally do not elicit complete and durable protective immunity by themselves, they have not to date been effectively controlled by licensed or experimental vaccines." The authors of the paper (not just Fauci) named off a group of different viruses, not just a single one. Taken in the stated context, it should make a lot more sense to anyone who reads this stuff.
      - randm_sequence 4y ago
        Countless studies have shown that SARS-CoV2 can infect systemically and not just the lungs. The SARS-CoV2 virus has been found in virtually every organ and the first autopsy studies in 2020 demonstrated this. It is horrifying that the person who has lead the response to this virus for the US is a coauthor of this factually incorrect statement 3 years into the pandemic.
        latchkey 4y ago
        > Countless studies Not that I don't believe you, but source? > this factually incorrect statement Exactly which factually incorrect statement?
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
Humoral vaccines do provide some limited protection when it comes to transmission. Nothing like a mucosal vaccine would. But an additional line of protection for the susceptible we may come in contact with. For full disclosure I don't vaccinate anymore (waiting until the mucosal vaccines are available). But I understand those who do, especially if they are around other people when maskless more than I am.
- oaktrout 4y ago
  I was under the impression that there is no data showing that the covid mrna vaccines reduce transmission. If you are aware of a source that says otherwise I would love to check it out.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    I can't find the article I read a month or so ago that indicated a low protection of around 20% compared to vaccinated. Here's a much older article about the original omicron (quite distinct from the BA.2 descendants we have now): https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7109e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7109e1.htm > The ARs among household contacts of index patients who had received a COVID-19 booster dose, of fully vaccinated index patients who completed their COVID-19 primary series within the previous 5 months, and of unvaccinated index patients were 42.7% (47 of 110), 43.6% (17 of 39), and 63.9% (69 of 108), respectively.
    - oaktrout 4y ago
      I appreciate the response. Hard to draw many conclusions from that study for a number of reasons, but perhaps the greatest in my mind is highlighted near the end: "TCOVID-19 prevention measures (vaccination, isolation, and mask use) are likely highly correlated within households, and the identified risk factors might not be independent predictors of transmission". Basically this article doesn't show that vaccines prevent transmission. It doesn't show they don't either, although that there wasn't a more dramatic effect is a negative finding in my opinion. I wish the authors had analyzes the AR in vaccinated vs unvaccinated household contacts.
throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
Because vaccines lower the likelihood and severity of infection and do not have any significant negative side effect.

> Then I see old folks or one 30y/o woman in the supermarket wearing a mask, and I remember that this protects them too. I have a hard time believing that after 2 years of messaging about why people should take a vaccine that this is an “honest question”

mdp2021 4y ago
> I have a hard time believing that after 2 years of messaging about why You must have forgotten that they have been two years of communicational failures.
- landemva 4y ago
  I just read this January 2023 article by a person with last name Fauci that claims coronaviruses have never been controlled by vaccines. More communication problems or admission of mistakes? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9832587 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9832587 Rethinking next-generation vaccines for coronaviruses, influenzaviruses, and other respiratory viruses David M. Morens, Jeffery K. Taubenberger, and Anthony S. Fauci 'Because these viruses generally do not elicit complete and durable protective immunity by themselves, they have not to date been effectively controlled by licensed or experimental vaccines. In this review, we examine challenges that have impeded development of effective mucosal respiratory vaccines ...'
  - latchkey 4y ago
    > with last name Fauci that claims coronaviruses have never been controlled by vaccines Actually, the full text is: "Viruses that replicate in the human respiratory mucosa without infecting systemically, including influenza A, SARS-CoV-2, endemic coronaviruses, RSV, and many other “common cold” viruses, cause significant mortality and morbidity and are important public health concerns. Because these viruses generally do not elicit complete and durable protective immunity by themselves, they have not to date been effectively controlled by licensed or experimental vaccines." The authors of the paper (not just Fauci) named off a group of different viruses, not just a single one. Taken in the stated context, it should make a lot more sense to anyone who reads this stuff.
    - randm_sequence 4y ago
      Countless studies have shown that SARS-CoV2 can infect systemically and not just the lungs. The SARS-CoV2 virus has been found in virtually every organ and the first autopsy studies in 2020 demonstrated this. It is horrifying that the person who has lead the response to this virus for the US is a coauthor of this factually incorrect statement 3 years into the pandemic.
      - latchkey 4y ago
        > Countless studies Not that I don't believe you, but source? > this factually incorrect statement Exactly which factually incorrect statement?

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

Humoral vaccines do provide some limited protection when it comes to transmission. Nothing like a mucosal vaccine would. But an additional line of protection for the susceptible we may come in contact with. For full disclosure I don't vaccinate anymore (waiting until the mucosal vaccines are available). But I understand those who do, especially if they are around other people when maskless more than I am.

oaktrout 4y ago
I was under the impression that there is no data showing that the covid mrna vaccines reduce transmission. If you are aware of a source that says otherwise I would love to check it out.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  I can't find the article I read a month or so ago that indicated a low protection of around 20% compared to vaccinated. Here's a much older article about the original omicron (quite distinct from the BA.2 descendants we have now): https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7109e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7109e1.htm > The ARs among household contacts of index patients who had received a COVID-19 booster dose, of fully vaccinated index patients who completed their COVID-19 primary series within the previous 5 months, and of unvaccinated index patients were 42.7% (47 of 110), 43.6% (17 of 39), and 63.9% (69 of 108), respectively.
  - oaktrout 4y ago
    I appreciate the response. Hard to draw many conclusions from that study for a number of reasons, but perhaps the greatest in my mind is highlighted near the end: "TCOVID-19 prevention measures (vaccination, isolation, and mask use) are likely highly correlated within households, and the identified risk factors might not be independent predictors of transmission". Basically this article doesn't show that vaccines prevent transmission. It doesn't show they don't either, although that there wasn't a more dramatic effect is a negative finding in my opinion. I wish the authors had analyzes the AR in vaccinated vs unvaccinated household contacts.

throwawaaarrgh 4y ago

Because vaccines lower the likelihood and severity of infection and do not have any significant negative side effect.