6 ms·

Entire article ignores trans experiences, elevates a cis "ally" who feels trans people are icky, doesn't mention that detransitoners make up a very small fracti

Entire article ignores trans experiences, elevates a cis "ally" who feels trans people are icky, doesn't mention that detransitoners make up a very small fraction of all cases and the vast majority of people who transition are glad to have done so. Hand wringing about the effects of T on young girls from seeing the female body as a sexual object that is "ruined" by it. The only thing the article gets right is that puberty blockers are generally bad, but they're used because doctors are reticent to prescribe hormones, so they delay the choice.

spurgu 4y ago
> the vast majority of people who transition are glad to have done so According to a study with a ~12 month follow-up period after transitioning? I read something similarly misleading recently.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  12 months? What about 3, 5 or 10 years? Wouldn't that be more reasonable period to consider.
  - spurgu 4y ago
    So you would think and the prospect doesn't necessarily look that rosy when you do.
    - CSSer 4y ago
      I’m interested in the sources you’re referring to. Loss of follow-up seems well-cited as a potential weakness by legitimate sources in my brief investigation, but more importantly they have a reasonable amount of data from very old sources as well. I didn’t have to look hard.
- to1y 4y ago
  I completely believe all those feelings are completely real but I fail to see how changing anything related to your appearance will bring true lasting happiness. To me it seems like the pinnacle of an image obsessed society. Additionally, let's be honest, most trans will never look 100% like their desired gender, none of them will look close without hormone therapy, and many are much less fortunate even with all the pills and operations. It's a spiral of self-delusion and refusal to accept boundaries and the limits of nature.
  - CSSer 4y ago
    Your comment strikes me as interesting because you mention an image obsessed society but then you make some statements about image that seem to suggest a personal endorsement of this standard. Let’s hypothetically assume that your statements about failure to be perceived as they wish are 100% true as well as the idea that we should be less image focused are true too. Why should they or anyone else care if they never look like their desired gender if they feel better and lead productive lives? I’ve certainly gotten dressed up to go nowhere, and I know women who put on makeup just for themselves too. I realize this doesn’t lie in exactly the same realm, but I hope you can see my point. Are we deluded? It seems to me that nature is a slippery slope.
  - majikaja 4y ago
    If people say that the placebo effect will be diminished.
crazygringo 4y ago
[flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  You've broken the site guidelines in several places here. Please don't do that, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Those are the moments when it matters most to follow them. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
tonfreed 4y ago
Suicide rates are the same before and after transitioning. There's something else going on that needs to be addressed, and simply screaming at and attempting to gaslight critical voices is going to end with the unnecessary deaths of a lot more people.
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  Seems likely from the evidence that gender dysphoria is a good indicator for the existence of an underlying mental condition rather than some sort of glorious lifestyle choice, whether or not the person with dysphoria actually "transitions". Unfortunately instead of helping these troubled people we are placating them and encouraging them to damage themselves (which, to be clear, should be there right if they are adults).
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Are they? Where's the study? I couldn't find one on suicide rates, but this one on based on survey data (so people who are still alive to answer the survey), says that suicidal thoughts reduce after transitioning. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2779429 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstrac...
  - 0xy 4y ago
    The study you are citing appears to have been commissioned by the National Center for Transgender Equality (an organization that was founded by a transgender activist). That's like citing a study commissioned by Exxon-Mobil on climate change. Forgive me for being extremely suspicious, given the multitude of other research to the contrary. "The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      > The study you are citing appears to have been commissioned by the National Center for Transgender Equality Wrong. It was funded by a grant from the Patient Centered Outcomes Research Institute, which has no affiliation with any transgender activists. https://www.pcori.org/about/about-pcori https://www.pcori.org/about/about-pcori Forgive me for being extremely suspicious of your ability to evaluate evidence to come to rational conclusions. Your study compares sex-reassigned people to the general population, not those who had surgery against those who wanted surgery but didn't get it. It is cited multiple times with a correct interpretation by the paper I gave you. The author herself points out you're using it wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6q3e8v/science_ama_series_im_cecilia_dhejne_a_fellow_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6q3e8v/science_ama...
aaplok 4y ago
> elevates a cis "ally" who feels trans people are icky Are you talking about the author, who says at the start of the article that she is married to a trans man and spent years of her life working with and helping trans people? No matter what you think of the article, that claim is obviously wrong to anyone who read it.

spurgu 4y ago

> the vast majority of people who transition are glad to have done so According to a study with a ~12 month follow-up period after transitioning? I read something similarly misleading recently.

Ekaros 4y ago
12 months? What about 3, 5 or 10 years? Wouldn't that be more reasonable period to consider.
- spurgu 4y ago
  So you would think and the prospect doesn't necessarily look that rosy when you do.
  - CSSer 4y ago
    I’m interested in the sources you’re referring to. Loss of follow-up seems well-cited as a potential weakness by legitimate sources in my brief investigation, but more importantly they have a reasonable amount of data from very old sources as well. I didn’t have to look hard.
to1y 4y ago
I completely believe all those feelings are completely real but I fail to see how changing anything related to your appearance will bring true lasting happiness. To me it seems like the pinnacle of an image obsessed society. Additionally, let's be honest, most trans will never look 100% like their desired gender, none of them will look close without hormone therapy, and many are much less fortunate even with all the pills and operations. It's a spiral of self-delusion and refusal to accept boundaries and the limits of nature.
- CSSer 4y ago
  Your comment strikes me as interesting because you mention an image obsessed society but then you make some statements about image that seem to suggest a personal endorsement of this standard. Let’s hypothetically assume that your statements about failure to be perceived as they wish are 100% true as well as the idea that we should be less image focused are true too. Why should they or anyone else care if they never look like their desired gender if they feel better and lead productive lives? I’ve certainly gotten dressed up to go nowhere, and I know women who put on makeup just for themselves too. I realize this doesn’t lie in exactly the same realm, but I hope you can see my point. Are we deluded? It seems to me that nature is a slippery slope.
- majikaja 4y ago
  If people say that the placebo effect will be diminished.

crazygringo 4y ago

[flagged]

dang 4y ago
You've broken the site guidelines in several places here. Please don't do that, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Those are the moments when it matters most to follow them. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

tonfreed 4y ago

Suicide rates are the same before and after transitioning. There's something else going on that needs to be addressed, and simply screaming at and attempting to gaslight critical voices is going to end with the unnecessary deaths of a lot more people.

StanislavPetrov 4y ago
Seems likely from the evidence that gender dysphoria is a good indicator for the existence of an underlying mental condition rather than some sort of glorious lifestyle choice, whether or not the person with dysphoria actually "transitions". Unfortunately instead of helping these troubled people we are placating them and encouraging them to damage themselves (which, to be clear, should be there right if they are adults).
lern_too_spel 4y ago
Are they? Where's the study? I couldn't find one on suicide rates, but this one on based on survey data (so people who are still alive to answer the survey), says that suicidal thoughts reduce after transitioning. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2779429 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstrac...
- 0xy 4y ago
  The study you are citing appears to have been commissioned by the National Center for Transgender Equality (an organization that was founded by a transgender activist). That's like citing a study commissioned by Exxon-Mobil on climate change. Forgive me for being extremely suspicious, given the multitude of other research to the contrary. "The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    > The study you are citing appears to have been commissioned by the National Center for Transgender Equality Wrong. It was funded by a grant from the Patient Centered Outcomes Research Institute, which has no affiliation with any transgender activists. https://www.pcori.org/about/about-pcori https://www.pcori.org/about/about-pcori Forgive me for being extremely suspicious of your ability to evaluate evidence to come to rational conclusions. Your study compares sex-reassigned people to the general population, not those who had surgery against those who wanted surgery but didn't get it. It is cited multiple times with a correct interpretation by the paper I gave you. The author herself points out you're using it wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6q3e8v/science_ama_series_im_cecilia_dhejne_a_fellow_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6q3e8v/science_ama...

aaplok 4y ago

> elevates a cis "ally" who feels trans people are icky Are you talking about the author, who says at the start of the article that she is married to a trans man and spent years of her life working with and helping trans people? No matter what you think of the article, that claim is obviously wrong to anyone who read it.