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Maybe they should make a persuasive demo if they want people to care. ChatGPT isn't so hot right now because boring PR articles were written about its abilities
by mshake2 4y ago
Maybe they should make a persuasive demo if they want people to care. ChatGPT isn't so hot right now because boring PR articles were written about its abilities. It's hot because you can try it and see for yourself. Basic showmanship.
- jrvarela56 4y agoGoogle gives me Xerox PARC vibes wrt AI. Got to the insights first, way ahead of everyone else, but OpenAI is productizing faster (like Apple did with Xerox PARC's research).
- belter 4y agoOpenAI and Microsoft will be hit by a big bus called GDPR. "Unveiling the Crucial 5 GDPR Obstacles of ChatGPT That Can’t Be Ignored" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34709482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34709482
- tester756 4y agoif it wasn't problem for Google, then why would for ChatGPT?
- fsh 4y agoIt isn't. No court has ever interpreted the GDPR in the bizarre way suggested in the linked article.
- wand3r 4y agoI have no idea how OpenAI would look at this, and of course there are similar obstacles here re:copilot vs. gpl, but couldn't they just shut off European access. I think AI would be so important that Europe couldnt afford to not have AI. Wonder how this would resolve.
- GreedClarifies 4y agoMy guess is that the petty little bureaucratic tyrants in the EU would much rather deprive their subjects of new products than give up any sliver of their power. One could hope that this would cause a rebellion, but recent history suggests that the populace will go along with anything their lords decree.
- olivermuty 4y agoShort reply: lol Longer reply: I love the EU so much. One of the few institutions taking big tech to task. I can roam cell operators at no extra cost, ensure that companies cant data mine me without my express permission and other wonderful tech oriented regulation. It is extremely narrow minded to believe that throwing all principle out the window is the only way to «not stifle innovation». «The lords decree», where does one even begin. The biggest fight against bigtech involving amongst others the cloud act that lets the us govt spy on anyone in complete secrecy is literally spearheaded by a common man [0]. This entire post is either satire, and if so I ate it hook line and sinker… or it is some kind of privacy exploitation stockholm syndrome. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems
- WanderPanda 4y agoYou mix up privacy wrt to the state (which has the monopoly on violence) vs private organisations. Two very different cans of worms. The EU is determined to fight the latter while embracing the former (as its incentives would suggest)
- pjkundert 4y agoYou don’t fight “big tech” by giving “big brother” all your liberty…
- mstipetic 4y agoNuance - a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.
- dkislyuk 4y agoThe LLM / foundation model industry will happily stay in the United States and ignore the stifling regulation of the EU if necessary. There is so much market share to capture domestically at the moment.
- croes 4y agoIn the US it will get sued for copyright violation and similar.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoNew laws would have to outlaw fair use, that will likely not happen as the only country that ignores such laws will win, especially now that the cat is out of the bag.
- ben_w 4y agoThey can redefine fair use without removing it entirely. Thing like that happen all the time. Will it be effective? Dunno, but LLMs aren't as easy to duplicate or execute as films are to pirate or watch, and yet copyright law still gets enforced somewhat.
- missingdays 4y agoDon't threaten the EU with good time
- rawoke083600 4y agoLol you can have Crypto in E.U but not fancy new A.I, same how you can have A.I in USA but not Crypto :)
- __MatrixMan__ 4y agoOne day, we'll have crypto where "mining" is helping train the AI. It'll be allowed nowhere.
- wyager 4y agoAt some point, US companies will get fed up with constantly being harassed by the EU and just give up on the relatively small (as in money, not population) European market entirely. The hostility is simply not worth it. For a sense of scale - the EU has 0 (zero) of the 14 largest companies by market cap. Out of the next 25, only a handful are in the EU.
- tester756 4y agoGo ahead and bet your money on that If your prediction happens, then EU based startups/companies that'll fill the void will booom.
- ianbutler 4y agoI like Europe, but a climate for entrepreneurship is not something you have.
- tester756 4y agoThat's irrelevant imo. If FAANG announced leaving EU, then somebody's stock would go up hard, at least on the beginning.
- WanderPanda 4y agoAnd productivity would falter even more without Google and Apple…
- noogle 4y agoWhy? There are various search engines that perform sufficiently well, all ran by start-up (Neeva, Kagi etc.). Android is a suitable alternative for iOS. The absence of European tech giants might reflect the consolidated nature of software rather than the competence of the EU.
- rowanajmarshall 4y ago
- MadSudaca 4y agoWho knows. Maybe it's GDPR whose getting hit by a bus.
- _yid9 4y agoThe great thing about the current-gen LLMs — anybody will be able to run one on the next gen of hardware. We’re within one order of magnitude of the capacity right now on retail hardware. The moment of transition from “data-centric” (big centralized system/database) to “agent-centric” (locally stored/run systems and identity, sharing arbitrary data/storage) has arrived. GDPR, LLM “guard rails”, … — only the plebs will be affected by those.
- TigeriusKirk 4y agoI believe you could run GPT-2 at home now. Remember when OpenAI claimed that was too much power to allow open access to?
- pjkundert 4y agoBenevolent overlords patting the filthy masses on the head.
- nateburke 4y ago> The moment of transition from “data-centric” (big centralized system/database) to “agent-centric” (locally stored/run systems and identity, sharing arbitrary data/storage) has arrived. I agree. Use cases such as LLMs-as-backend-of-my-web-stack will move a lot of compute back to the edge of the network, eventually.
- max51 4y agoWith AI, most failed products aren't just "late" at the game, they often never release anything at all. Most of the wild claims made by AI companies could be strait up lies and we would never know because no one other than the devs has laid eyes on it directly.
- fsckboy 4y ago> OpenAI is productizing faster (like Apple did with Xerox PARC's research) what happens in cases like this is a slightly different dynamic what it seems on the surface. Apple, coming of huge success with the Apple ][ using the anemic but cheap 6502 8 bit to build a low-end (compared to Xerox) mass market (compared to Xerox) product, was well positioned to capitalize/productize the next generation of more capable 16/32 bit chips without changing their business model or distribution channel. It's right place right time, plus "easier to improve from the bottom, than downgrade from the top". This idea was identified in a famous McKinsey study of the British motorcycle industry's loss of market share to low cost Japanese competition in the 1960's and 70's. The post WWII Japanese market developed to serve people who needed transportation but could not afford the leading British brands, not to mention autos. Once Japan had a successful motorcycle industry it was natural for them to export inexpensive bikes to Southeast Asia and South Asia. The British companies (Triumph, BSA, Norton) did not make much profit on the cheap bikes, they made their profit on the powerful luxury models, so they abandoned competing in the cheap sectors. But then another force comes into play: if you manufacture a large number of something (there is always more of the cheap things) you get all sorts of manufacturing advantages. If you figure out a way to use achieve sturdy construction with fewer nuts and bolts, you get to save those nickels over many many bikes which makes it worth your effort to be good at that. If 1 out of 100 of your bikes leaks oil, and you sell a million, you get a lot of complaints, and you fix it. (these are called "learning curve advantages", and they tend to be logarithmic, so by being 10x bigger, you get +something better) But who especially wants to buy sturdy, reliable transport (everybody) and is willing to pay a premium for it (rich people in the form of high margins)? So being the largest (and by definition the best) manufacturer of a product leaves you perfectly positioned to be the best high margin luxury supplier. Xerox was not asleep at the switch, they were just not a high volume low cost manufacturer with a presence in the consumer market, at the time when these learning curve manufacturing/marketing ideas had just been developed so they weren't used to thinking that way. Nor was it a case of the suits not listening to the engineers; the engineering ethos at Xerox was not "can we squeeze this on the smallest chip possible", it was "omg let's leverage Moore's law onto even bigger high end chips, compile into microcode!" I know it's popular to hate on MBAs here, but this is an example of what they learn, and why VC's might like to see an MBA on the team, this is the kind of talk they want to see in the business plan rather than an impossible dream.
- GreedClarifies 4y agoNot just showmanship, utility. ChatGPT has utility since “the common person” actually has access. Deepmind loves doing research and getting accolades from a fawning press while never allowing commoners to access their dear technology for fear that the rabble could somehow misuse it. Google, you lost your way.
- khmii 4y agoI just looked it up and it sounds like there is no point in a person wanting to play chess against AlphaZero right now because other engines have surpassed it. I don't know that much about chess though. Here is for AlphaFold. I mean what you are going to do with this? It looks cool but I don't have the background to even contemplate doing anything with this information: https://alphafold.ebi.ac.uk/entry/L8XZM1 https://alphafold.ebi.ac.uk/entry/L8XZM1 What is most interesting to me is the sociology of people completely writing off the monstrosity of resources and brain power that is Google. Speaking as if they are stubbornly committed to some outdated technology as opposed to the organization that published Transformer: A Novel Neural Network Architecture for Language Understanding.
- alfor 4y agoExactly, they are too afraid of reputation risks. They sit on their golden goose and don’t want anything to happen to it. When people understand how much they know about each one of us (with AI) they will be regulated.
- la64710 4y agoThis is absolutely correct
- rawoke083600 4y agoTrue ! Does anyone know if Blizzard got access or usage from AlphaStar afterwards? For example to improve the current a.i/bot in the game ?
- Jensson 4y ago
- Kiro 4y agoThis is exactly right. ChatGPT (and Copilot) didn't blow my mind because people told me about it. It blew my mind when I started messing around with it. Doesn't matter how good things sound in theory. All the things that made me a believer are things I haven't even told anyone. It's too "you need to try it for yourself" for me to even try explaining.
- impulser_ 4y agoThis is DeepMind, not Google. DeepMind is an AI research lab. They aren't a company. They solely do research. They don't produce products.
- rudasn 4y ago> They don't produce products. That can be said about Google as well, and I think that's what parent meant to express.
- LoveMortuus 4y agoYeah... So many people miss the: "Show don't tell" That's for visual medium, for software it would be more like: "Touch, don't show" Especially with software, pretty much every programmer knows that sky is the limit, and that's why promises mean so little. In a way it's a similar problem to pre-orders. People need to try it to truly understand it and its value. Eg.: That new MMORPG looks amazing, but what's the gameplay like, because at the end of the day gameplay > graphics, if there's nothing to do except just the visuals people will get bored. And people usually forget the boring stuff.
- theknocker 4y ago[dead]
- anigbrowl 4y agoOrganizing the world's information and keeping it inaccessible
- xiphias2 4y agoThe problem for them isn't coming up with ChatGPT competitor. It's keeping their ads revenue.
- skybrian 4y agoHardly any scientific research has a demo for you to try. The job of researchers is to publish research and their primary audience is other researchers. We can read about it but they aren't marketers and they don't have a product to sell to you.
- amf12 4y ago> Maybe they should make a persuasive demo if they want people to care. This is the right response for Google's AI news, but not Deepmind. Building products isn't Deepmind's purpose. They have essentially "demo'd" it by releasing the paper and simulation videos. They don't build any products. This research is absolutely irrelevant for most people right now, but hopefully will be used by other researchers to make progress. It's like saying "Stanford should build products and do demos instead of just releasing papers".
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 4y agoI’d absurd to see basic research criticized by its lack of showmanship, especially when looking at paywalled secondary reporting on it. Hype isn’t the goal. In fact, hype and showmanship are generally counterproductive with research. That’s why a paper with a title “Compound B associated with low concentration of stuff in mice” turns into “Science says coffee will kill you.” Lack of showmanship and circus is a good thing here.
- narrator 4y agoI think the Deepmind guys are ahead technologically because of Google's vast talent pool and computing resources, but they are scared of what they are making. The CEO of Deepmind was considering that they should stop publishing research because bad people might use it. If it wasn't for the Open AI guys putting pressure on them, they'd just toy with this stuff forever and never release anything. I wonder what Larry and Sergei think of all this. Has Sergei said anything lately? Larry has been on a remote island in Fiji for years now. It seems with all this exciting geeky AI stuff they should be passionate about the business, but as far as I can tell they aren't very engaged. Edit: Here's a recent article. Apparently, Sergei is back working on things for the first time since 2019. Larry and Sergei also checked in on the AI strategy in December: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/technology/google-co-founder-sergey-brin-files-request-to-access-lamda-code-9998251.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/technology/google-co-found...