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Saving you a click: https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/

by gpvos 4y ago

Saving you a click: https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...

stephen_g 4y ago
And this is the Lancet article summarising the research: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00317-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2... The proportion of cancers attributable to alcohol is 4.1% of all cases, from [1]. Of that, the ‘Light to Moderate’ alcohol category (<=1.5L of wine per week or <=3.5L of beer per week) had 13.3% of cases for alcohol-attributable cancers and 2.3% of alcohol-related cancer cases. 1. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(21)00279-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2...
- Loic 4y ago
  2 bottles of wine per week is already quite a bit. If you are a couple, you pop a bottle more than every second day.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    3.5liter beer per week is just one beer per day which a lot of people consider completely benign.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    What matters is obviously per person... So "if you are a couple" is completely irrelevant. Terms like 'light', 'moderate' or 'heavy' drinking are relative and must be taken in context. For instance, historically it has been customary in many countries to drink wine with every meal. So 2 bottles per week is indeed moderate as it's about 1-2 glasses per meal. Likewise, 3.5l a beer per week is one beer at dinner, which is considered quite moderate, indeed. Basically, if your drinking is moderate during meals only and no hard liquor this is considerate 'moderate' to normal in traditional terms.
    - Loic 4y ago
      For the context, I am French, living in Germany. As a tradition (but maybe I am old) you never drink wine alone. This is why my remark "as couple" because it is the minimal number of people you need to drink. But again, this is my education, so very personal.
- FartyMcFarter 4y ago
  Gee, how did two bottles of wine / 7 pints of beer a week get categorised as light? For me light would be one or two beers a week max.
  - scotteric 4y ago
    Conventional wisdom used to be that a glass of wine or a beer everyday was healthy.
    - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
      Even if you're drinking a beer every day, it probably doesn't need to be a whole pint. Most beer bottles / cans are 330ml or close to that. A small glass of wine is also definitely less than the 200ml you'd need to get anywhere near 1.5 liters a week.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      heard that for wine, never heard that for beer
  - johnaspden 4y ago
    Lancet's British
    - _a_a_a_ 4y ago
      Brit here, upvoted for the giggle, but behind that I must admit we brits arguably have a serious (as in not at all funny) drug problem and that drug is alcohol.
      - ikekkdcjkfke 4y ago
        If it ain't broke
        _a_a_a_ 4y ago
        I personally knew someone who drank himself to death, literally. I've heard from reliable sources of quite a few others who did the same, so I reckon it's broke.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Yeah calling 1.5L/w 'light moderate' it's a stretch But anyway, I always take such research with a grain of salt (or maybe with a glass of wine) because alcohol consumption has personal relationship benefits Also not discounting the possibility that it's another "fat is bad" craze
  - scotty79 4y ago
    Then again it's equivalent of 3.5 liters of beer per week. And you don't see people who drink one beer after work and at most two on weekend calling themselves heavy drinkers.
  - khmii 4y ago
    I have always given the research credit that it may just be highly counter intuitive but it has always seemed rather obvious that drinking poison is not part of optimal longevity. The least shocking thing is for new research to come out claiming no amount of poison is good for you. I quite enjoy drinking a few times a year but pushing 50 there is nothing that makes me feel as bad as even a few beers the night before compared to getting up and going for my morning 60 min walk without.
    - raverbashing 4y ago
      Calling it "poison" is not an honest description of it That "poison" is present in fruits, and there is even evidence that we have evolved to eat fermented foods, containing said substance (which doesn't get metabolized in the best way, sure, but not in the worse way neither). UV rays are also "poison" and also essential to normal life. Oxygen is literally toxic to several life forms on earth. Other "poisons" present in food are cyanide for example. Vitamin A is also very damaging at high quantities.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- derbOac 4y ago
  That statement/summary was published after another large scale study was published in the same journal. IIRC that Lancet study is also kind of complex in that the harms are different with age. So before 40 years or so, the risk of alcohol is due to things like car accidents, falls, fights, etc, and after age 40 it's things like cancer etc. I think they even see the protective effect of light drinking on things like cardio outcomes in younger individuals, it's just outweighed by accidents etc. Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though because this is based on recent memory of from reading it before. But if so, I think it changes the nature of the message a bit — although it's literally true there is no safe level of alcohol consumption in a population mortality risk sense, what that means is sort of complex and age-dependent, and might be something you can counteract, or might not.

by gpvos 4y ago

Saving you a click: https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...

stephen_g 4y ago

And this is the Lancet article summarising the research: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00317-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2... The proportion of cancers attributable to alcohol is 4.1% of all cases, from [1]. Of that, the ‘Light to Moderate’ alcohol category (<=1.5L of wine per week or <=3.5L of beer per week) had 13.3% of cases for alcohol-attributable cancers and 2.3% of alcohol-related cancer cases. 1. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(21)00279-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2...

Loic 4y ago
2 bottles of wine per week is already quite a bit. If you are a couple, you pop a bottle more than every second day.
- scotty79 4y ago
  3.5liter beer per week is just one beer per day which a lot of people consider completely benign.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  What matters is obviously per person... So "if you are a couple" is completely irrelevant. Terms like 'light', 'moderate' or 'heavy' drinking are relative and must be taken in context. For instance, historically it has been customary in many countries to drink wine with every meal. So 2 bottles per week is indeed moderate as it's about 1-2 glasses per meal. Likewise, 3.5l a beer per week is one beer at dinner, which is considered quite moderate, indeed. Basically, if your drinking is moderate during meals only and no hard liquor this is considerate 'moderate' to normal in traditional terms.
  - Loic 4y ago
    For the context, I am French, living in Germany. As a tradition (but maybe I am old) you never drink wine alone. This is why my remark "as couple" because it is the minimal number of people you need to drink. But again, this is my education, so very personal.
FartyMcFarter 4y ago
Gee, how did two bottles of wine / 7 pints of beer a week get categorised as light? For me light would be one or two beers a week max.
- scotteric 4y ago
  Conventional wisdom used to be that a glass of wine or a beer everyday was healthy.
  - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
    Even if you're drinking a beer every day, it probably doesn't need to be a whole pint. Most beer bottles / cans are 330ml or close to that. A small glass of wine is also definitely less than the 200ml you'd need to get anywhere near 1.5 liters a week.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    heard that for wine, never heard that for beer
- johnaspden 4y ago
  Lancet's British
  - _a_a_a_ 4y ago
    Brit here, upvoted for the giggle, but behind that I must admit we brits arguably have a serious (as in not at all funny) drug problem and that drug is alcohol.
    - ikekkdcjkfke 4y ago
      If it ain't broke
      - _a_a_a_ 4y ago
        I personally knew someone who drank himself to death, literally. I've heard from reliable sources of quite a few others who did the same, so I reckon it's broke.
raverbashing 4y ago
Yeah calling 1.5L/w 'light moderate' it's a stretch But anyway, I always take such research with a grain of salt (or maybe with a glass of wine) because alcohol consumption has personal relationship benefits Also not discounting the possibility that it's another "fat is bad" craze
- scotty79 4y ago
  Then again it's equivalent of 3.5 liters of beer per week. And you don't see people who drink one beer after work and at most two on weekend calling themselves heavy drinkers.
- khmii 4y ago
  I have always given the research credit that it may just be highly counter intuitive but it has always seemed rather obvious that drinking poison is not part of optimal longevity. The least shocking thing is for new research to come out claiming no amount of poison is good for you. I quite enjoy drinking a few times a year but pushing 50 there is nothing that makes me feel as bad as even a few beers the night before compared to getting up and going for my morning 60 min walk without.
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    Calling it "poison" is not an honest description of it That "poison" is present in fruits, and there is even evidence that we have evolved to eat fermented foods, containing said substance (which doesn't get metabolized in the best way, sure, but not in the worse way neither). UV rays are also "poison" and also essential to normal life. Oxygen is literally toxic to several life forms on earth. Other "poisons" present in food are cyanide for example. Vitamin A is also very damaging at high quantities.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
derbOac 4y ago
That statement/summary was published after another large scale study was published in the same journal. IIRC that Lancet study is also kind of complex in that the harms are different with age. So before 40 years or so, the risk of alcohol is due to things like car accidents, falls, fights, etc, and after age 40 it's things like cancer etc. I think they even see the protective effect of light drinking on things like cardio outcomes in younger individuals, it's just outweighed by accidents etc. Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though because this is based on recent memory of from reading it before. But if so, I think it changes the nature of the message a bit — although it's literally true there is no safe level of alcohol consumption in a population mortality risk sense, what that means is sort of complex and age-dependent, and might be something you can counteract, or might not.