4 ms·

Don't think of this in terms of just art. In fact art is probably a confusing example since the creative process is a bit obscure. Think of creating any immater

by svara 4y ago

Don't think of this in terms of just art. In fact art is probably a confusing example since the creative process is a bit obscure. Think of creating any immaterial object of value to you or others. A recipe book, a coding blog, a graphic novel, whatever. Are you really going to go through the pains of creating that and putting it out there, if on the next day some AI startup is going to train its models on it and offer something seemingly different, but ultimately equivalent, commercially? We're running into a huge problem for creators here, and it'll have to be solved with new laws around training models on original content some way or the other. If we want to still have a creative industry going forward, that is.

w4ffl35 4y ago
Bill Gates says that ChatGPT will change the world, make Jobs more efficient. Weird that people don't feel the same about Stable Diffusion even though it will do the exact same thing
- nbzso 4y ago
  Bill is obviously reached, a statute of God. He is starting a Climate religion as we speak, he should hire Tom Cruise for a start. He knows a lot about this profitable startup idea.
  - w4ffl35 4y ago
    bill gates is a chode. i only quote him to say: high profile people are willing to make happy predictions about text generators but not art generators. biased and stupid.
    - nbzso 4y ago
      They don't care. At all. From their POV, all that matters is market share and profit. The rest is PR.
      - w4ffl35 4y ago
        To be fair I am also biased: I am responsible for creating an interface that uses Stable Diffusion https://capsizegames.itch.io/ai-runner https://capsizegames.itch.io/ai-runner, but the program is a result of my bias not the root cause.
        nbzso 4y ago
        Good for you, you are in the trend, may the gods of the multiverse be with you.:) I personally have no interest in generative art at all. Just received my new handmade brushes from Escoda. Waiting for a spring to paint me some landscapes. I get my inspiration just as a generative AI, from data set from countless artists before me. The difference? I am still human and love the process which is not driven by the profit margins or time to market optimization.
        w4ffl35 4y ago
        i just want to program some cool shit
        nbzso 4y ago
        Don't get me wrong. I am old and biased to my core. My personal experience is that in reality the winner is the boring tech which people use because of real life needs and goals. All of it related to their survival and well-being. Generating some pictures is entertaining and may be valuable for some, but when we talk about art, the process is more important than the results. Art is personal human expression. When my brushes are painting more than me, this is their art. Not mine. All of this will give yet another tool in the corporate belt for reducing employment on a grand scale. And this is not the industrial revolution, which provided some alternative to the craftsman of the era. This is the removal of human value in the production loop. Edit: Did you not read the ART part of my response? Boring is MS Excel, a real game changer.
        w4ffl35 4y ago
- visarga 4y ago
  > make Jobs more efficient The important thing here is not if jobs are getting more efficient or not, it's that everyone gets the same boost. All companies will get the same AI, and that makes people the differentiating factor. Let's stop with the theories of job loss by AI automation, competition will have humans+AI and beat your company that uses AI alone. The early Google for example was also an AI. But it was open to everyone, nobody got exclusive Google access. So we all benefited equally and there were no overall job losses.
  - w4ffl35 4y ago
    agreed with all that
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Soon after chess AI beat all humans, people found that human-AI-hybrid players were still better than pure AI. That time has past, and now having humans in the team only make the AI worse. Will that happen here? Possibly, but not certain, even with superhuman capacity: I suspect, but am not certain, that art is a peacock tail for humans — a signal where the point is to be extravagant and expensive — which means that all automation of it, including pre-AI automation, results in that-which-is-now-cheap no longer counting as "art" in the minds of increasingly many humans. Some of the famous renaissance still life paintings are recreated a million times a day as people use their phones to take photos of their food. The hard ones are art, the common ones are…?
    - visarga 4y ago
      > That time has past, and now having humans in the team only make the AI worse. Making human-AI teams win sounds like a new challenge where AI could contribute.
- rvz 4y ago
  Of course he will say that. ‘Microsoft co-founder believes that his company’s own investment in the AI startup that created ChatGPT will change the world.’ It is open source AI models that are large in parameters, transparent and smaller in size that are the ones that will permanently change the world and will disrupt OpenAI’s closed AI SaaS business plans.
  - w4ffl35 4y ago
    its also a really soft take. i prefer peter thiel's recent address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ4rc7npiXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ4rc7npiXQ
nbzso 4y ago
We don't want any creative human input, because it is expensive and gives opportunity to have a middle class. Sam is regularly at Davos. Ask the Davos futurists about their vision of tomorrow in which everything will be fine and dandy. Did you see Sam's appearance at the Microsoft presentation? It is all about safety, he said. Safety.
TobTobXX 4y ago
> and offer something seemingly different, but ultimately equivalent, commercially? > it'll have to be solved with new laws Tbh, if an AI will fill out a need I had for cheaper than a human would, thn I'd see that as positive. Be it image asset creation, ghost writing or whatever. Restricting that with laws seems like it would only cut innovation because it takes away jobs. Kinda like forbidding robot assemblers in industry. Tough, take that from a person on the consumer side of creative works.
- svara 4y ago
  If we replace a big chunk of our media with derivative works created by copyright laundering engines, we're destroying the incentives to be original and creative. But we absolutely need originality and creativity! Living in a world where everything looks sort of like SEO spam sounds like a dystopia to me. Note, I don't think those technologies should or will be banned. There just have to be rules in place that allow creators to opt-in to having their work used as training data, with appropriate remuneration. If that makes some AI business models unworkable, that's fine with me as long as we don't destroy our creative and inventive people's livelihoods.
  - gverrilla 4y ago
    Let's be honest most of that art is intended to make you buy things you don't really need. It's already a SEO spam all around. The internet is not aesthetically pleasing at all. Real art will survive, don't worry. True creativity emerges naturally from human experience and is not dependent on a specific industry. Also now it will be more accessible. I think baboon Freud agrees [id]! id: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1073730007437955135/1073739951352586321/lpsss_a_baboon_holding_a_cigar_with_a_sad_face_153b1e6f-4b52-49a1-a74f-6708f25b468c.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1073730007437955135/1...

by svara 4y ago

w4ffl35 4y ago

Bill Gates says that ChatGPT will change the world, make Jobs more efficient. Weird that people don't feel the same about Stable Diffusion even though it will do the exact same thing

nbzso 4y ago
Bill is obviously reached, a statute of God. He is starting a Climate religion as we speak, he should hire Tom Cruise for a start. He knows a lot about this profitable startup idea.
- w4ffl35 4y ago
  bill gates is a chode. i only quote him to say: high profile people are willing to make happy predictions about text generators but not art generators. biased and stupid.
  - nbzso 4y ago
    They don't care. At all. From their POV, all that matters is market share and profit. The rest is PR.
    - w4ffl35 4y ago
      To be fair I am also biased: I am responsible for creating an interface that uses Stable Diffusion https://capsizegames.itch.io/ai-runner https://capsizegames.itch.io/ai-runner, but the program is a result of my bias not the root cause.
      - nbzso 4y ago
        Good for you, you are in the trend, may the gods of the multiverse be with you.:) I personally have no interest in generative art at all. Just received my new handmade brushes from Escoda. Waiting for a spring to paint me some landscapes. I get my inspiration just as a generative AI, from data set from countless artists before me. The difference? I am still human and love the process which is not driven by the profit margins or time to market optimization.
        w4ffl35 4y ago
        i just want to program some cool shit
        nbzso 4y ago
        Don't get me wrong. I am old and biased to my core. My personal experience is that in reality the winner is the boring tech which people use because of real life needs and goals. All of it related to their survival and well-being. Generating some pictures is entertaining and may be valuable for some, but when we talk about art, the process is more important than the results. Art is personal human expression. When my brushes are painting more than me, this is their art. Not mine. All of this will give yet another tool in the corporate belt for reducing employment on a grand scale. And this is not the industrial revolution, which provided some alternative to the craftsman of the era. This is the removal of human value in the production loop. Edit: Did you not read the ART part of my response? Boring is MS Excel, a real game changer.
        w4ffl35 4y ago
visarga 4y ago
> make Jobs more efficient The important thing here is not if jobs are getting more efficient or not, it's that everyone gets the same boost. All companies will get the same AI, and that makes people the differentiating factor. Let's stop with the theories of job loss by AI automation, competition will have humans+AI and beat your company that uses AI alone. The early Google for example was also an AI. But it was open to everyone, nobody got exclusive Google access. So we all benefited equally and there were no overall job losses.
- w4ffl35 4y ago
  agreed with all that
- ben_w 4y ago
  Soon after chess AI beat all humans, people found that human-AI-hybrid players were still better than pure AI. That time has past, and now having humans in the team only make the AI worse. Will that happen here? Possibly, but not certain, even with superhuman capacity: I suspect, but am not certain, that art is a peacock tail for humans — a signal where the point is to be extravagant and expensive — which means that all automation of it, including pre-AI automation, results in that-which-is-now-cheap no longer counting as "art" in the minds of increasingly many humans. Some of the famous renaissance still life paintings are recreated a million times a day as people use their phones to take photos of their food. The hard ones are art, the common ones are…?
  - visarga 4y ago
    > That time has past, and now having humans in the team only make the AI worse. Making human-AI teams win sounds like a new challenge where AI could contribute.
rvz 4y ago
Of course he will say that. ‘Microsoft co-founder believes that his company’s own investment in the AI startup that created ChatGPT will change the world.’ It is open source AI models that are large in parameters, transparent and smaller in size that are the ones that will permanently change the world and will disrupt OpenAI’s closed AI SaaS business plans.
- w4ffl35 4y ago
  its also a really soft take. i prefer peter thiel's recent address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ4rc7npiXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ4rc7npiXQ

nbzso 4y ago

We don't want any creative human input, because it is expensive and gives opportunity to have a middle class. Sam is regularly at Davos. Ask the Davos futurists about their vision of tomorrow in which everything will be fine and dandy. Did you see Sam's appearance at the Microsoft presentation? It is all about safety, he said. Safety.

TobTobXX 4y ago

> and offer something seemingly different, but ultimately equivalent, commercially? > it'll have to be solved with new laws Tbh, if an AI will fill out a need I had for cheaper than a human would, thn I'd see that as positive. Be it image asset creation, ghost writing or whatever. Restricting that with laws seems like it would only cut innovation because it takes away jobs. Kinda like forbidding robot assemblers in industry. Tough, take that from a person on the consumer side of creative works.

svara 4y ago
If we replace a big chunk of our media with derivative works created by copyright laundering engines, we're destroying the incentives to be original and creative. But we absolutely need originality and creativity! Living in a world where everything looks sort of like SEO spam sounds like a dystopia to me. Note, I don't think those technologies should or will be banned. There just have to be rules in place that allow creators to opt-in to having their work used as training data, with appropriate remuneration. If that makes some AI business models unworkable, that's fine with me as long as we don't destroy our creative and inventive people's livelihoods.
- gverrilla 4y ago
  Let's be honest most of that art is intended to make you buy things you don't really need. It's already a SEO spam all around. The internet is not aesthetically pleasing at all. Real art will survive, don't worry. True creativity emerges naturally from human experience and is not dependent on a specific industry. Also now it will be more accessible. I think baboon Freud agrees [id]! id: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1073730007437955135/1073739951352586321/lpsss_a_baboon_holding_a_cigar_with_a_sad_face_153b1e6f-4b52-49a1-a74f-6708f25b468c.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1073730007437955135/1...