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Microwaves transmit on a frequency nowhere near missile systems and are not modulated in any way resembling a missile fire control system, but cool story. ECM

Microwaves transmit on a frequency nowhere near missile systems and are not modulated in any way resembling a missile fire control system, but cool story. ECM gear in US warplanes can classify a system based off its emissions and people think they're fooled by a microwave oven?

zztop44 4y ago
Not to be too provocative, but hugely expensive precision equipment being fooled by a microwave oven with the door cut off is exactly what I’d expect from the US military.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mulmen 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - zztop44 4y ago
    Based on a long history of similar failures? As one example, claiming that they were bombing tanks when they were actually bombing “pneumatic rubber images of tanks” with heat sources strapped to them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm
- taneq 4y ago
  I mean, we had a SETI false alarm from the break room microwave door being opened without pressing the ‘stop’ button first…
sorokod 4y ago
Yes, ELINT systems have been able to distinguish and classify emission signatures in high resolution for ages.
andirk 4y ago
Doesn't mean it worked. One can _attempt_ to create a decoy, especially if they have little knowledge of how radiation is transmitted into the environment. On South Park, Randy Marsh, a geologist with a Ph.D., puts his nuts in the microwave to get just enough cancer that he can qualify for medical marijuana. [0] People often say "nuke" when referring to using a microwave. I tried growing marijuana with CFL lights in my dorm room. When the cops showed up, I ate the biggest of the 3 plants, a few inches tall, right in front of them. [0] https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Randy_Marsh https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Randy_Marsh
lb1lf 4y ago
So the obvious solution for any AAA designer would be to emulate the radiation pattern of a microwave as closely as possible? Point being - even if the emissions doesn't match anything you have on record (except possibly a microwave) - would you risk a $100M airplane on it being a decoy?
hinkley 4y ago
Isn't it the control circuits surrounding the magnetron that do a lot of this work? If you clip off some transistors and wire on a new one, how much can you change the frequency?
mlyle 4y ago
> Microwaves transmit on a frequency nowhere near missile systems S band is used for target acquisition a whole lot. > and are not modulated in any way resembling a missile fire control system Yup, but when you're deciding whether or not to launch a HARM it's better safe than sorry. In turn, asymmetries accrue. Indeed, you can't really afford to ignore the microwave oven S-band emitter, because you could use even a literal microwave oven for illumination with passive radar techniques for target acquisition pretty well.

zztop44 4y ago

Not to be too provocative, but hugely expensive precision equipment being fooled by a microwave oven with the door cut off is exactly what I’d expect from the US military.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mulmen 4y ago
[flagged]
- zztop44 4y ago
  Based on a long history of similar failures? As one example, claiming that they were bombing tanks when they were actually bombing “pneumatic rubber images of tanks” with heat sources strapped to them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm
taneq 4y ago
I mean, we had a SETI false alarm from the break room microwave door being opened without pressing the ‘stop’ button first…

sorokod 4y ago

Yes, ELINT systems have been able to distinguish and classify emission signatures in high resolution for ages.

andirk 4y ago

Doesn't mean it worked. One can _attempt_ to create a decoy, especially if they have little knowledge of how radiation is transmitted into the environment. On South Park, Randy Marsh, a geologist with a Ph.D., puts his nuts in the microwave to get just enough cancer that he can qualify for medical marijuana. [0] People often say "nuke" when referring to using a microwave. I tried growing marijuana with CFL lights in my dorm room. When the cops showed up, I ate the biggest of the 3 plants, a few inches tall, right in front of them. [0] https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Randy_Marsh https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Randy_Marsh

lb1lf 4y ago

So the obvious solution for any AAA designer would be to emulate the radiation pattern of a microwave as closely as possible? Point being - even if the emissions doesn't match anything you have on record (except possibly a microwave) - would you risk a $100M airplane on it being a decoy?

hinkley 4y ago

Isn't it the control circuits surrounding the magnetron that do a lot of this work? If you clip off some transistors and wire on a new one, how much can you change the frequency?

mlyle 4y ago

> Microwaves transmit on a frequency nowhere near missile systems S band is used for target acquisition a whole lot. > and are not modulated in any way resembling a missile fire control system Yup, but when you're deciding whether or not to launch a HARM it's better safe than sorry. In turn, asymmetries accrue. Indeed, you can't really afford to ignore the microwave oven S-band emitter, because you could use even a literal microwave oven for illumination with passive radar techniques for target acquisition pretty well.