4 ms·

I heard the downing of the f-117 was due in large part to them flying the same patterns at the same time every night. Was this true? Or was there more involved

I heard the downing of the f-117 was due in large part to them flying the same patterns at the same time every night. Was this true? Or was there more involved in the AA hit?

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
IIRC it involved sacrificing one AA tank and using another to kill the plane.
sornaensis 4y ago
Yes, the same flight plans, routes and timetables, were re-used, so when spotters saw the aircraft take off they had a very good idea of where it would come from. The shoot down also involved the SAM radar operator violating his own SOP by leaving his radar on longer than they normally do, and firing at a non-PID contact, because they _knew_ the aircraft was going to be there. Complacency kills.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > non-PID contact What is that, exactly?
  - sundvor 4y ago
    Not having a positive ID, I reckon.
  - jack_riminton 4y ago
    Positively Identified. Western forces have many safeguards in place to only shoot at PID targets because the cost of 'blue-on-blue' is so destructive for morale
- michaelcampbell 4y ago
  > saw the aircraft take off they had a very good idea of where it would come from. Wait, what? If they saw the aircraft take off, they definitely knew where it came from, no?
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Since it was supposedly "invisible", there was a lot of joking that it was hit by accident saying: "sorry, we didn't see it".
sundvor 4y ago
I believe so, but also because they decided to still fly missions on a day where the Prowler EW platform was inoperable. Due to the extreme predictability of the route, along with no countermeasures, and intelligence on the matter, they were able to burn through. This is the article I read about this some time ago; good detail here! They quote complacency as a factor, arrogance would be another good word - in grossly underestimating the sheer determination on the other side. https://theaviationgeekclub.com/an-in-depth-analysis-of-how-serbs-were-able-to-shoot-down-an-f-117-stealth-fighter-during-operation-allied-force/ https://theaviationgeekclub.com/an-in-depth-analysis-of-how-...

I heard the downing of the f-117 was due in large part to them flying the same patterns at the same time every night. Was this true? Or was there more involved in the AA hit?

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago

IIRC it involved sacrificing one AA tank and using another to kill the plane.

sornaensis 4y ago

Yes, the same flight plans, routes and timetables, were re-used, so when spotters saw the aircraft take off they had a very good idea of where it would come from. The shoot down also involved the SAM radar operator violating his own SOP by leaving his radar on longer than they normally do, and firing at a non-PID contact, because they _knew_ the aircraft was going to be there. Complacency kills.

tablespoon 4y ago
> non-PID contact What is that, exactly?
- sundvor 4y ago
  Not having a positive ID, I reckon.
- jack_riminton 4y ago
  Positively Identified. Western forces have many safeguards in place to only shoot at PID targets because the cost of 'blue-on-blue' is so destructive for morale
michaelcampbell 4y ago
> saw the aircraft take off they had a very good idea of where it would come from. Wait, what? If they saw the aircraft take off, they definitely knew where it came from, no?

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

Since it was supposedly "invisible", there was a lot of joking that it was hit by accident saying: "sorry, we didn't see it".

sundvor 4y ago

I believe so, but also because they decided to still fly missions on a day where the Prowler EW platform was inoperable. Due to the extreme predictability of the route, along with no countermeasures, and intelligence on the matter, they were able to burn through. This is the article I read about this some time ago; good detail here! They quote complacency as a factor, arrogance would be another good word - in grossly underestimating the sheer determination on the other side. https://theaviationgeekclub.com/an-in-depth-analysis-of-how-serbs-were-able-to-shoot-down-an-f-117-stealth-fighter-during-operation-allied-force/ https://theaviationgeekclub.com/an-in-depth-analysis-of-how-...