5 ms·

The failure of the FDA

24 points by nbj914 15y ago

casca 15y ago
Who doesn't like cheap meat? Externalities FTW.
bmj 15y ago
It strikes me that the FDA is powerless in the face of the corporate lobby. While allowing CAFOs (among others) to "police themselves," the FDA aggressively pursues raw milk producers and farm-to-table organizations [http://farmtoconsumer.org/quail-hollow-farm-dinner.htm http://farmtoconsumer.org/quail-hollow-farm-dinner.htm] because no one with deep pockets is protecting these folks politically.
- anamax 15y ago
  > It strikes me that the FDA is powerless in the face of the corporate lobby. The term that you're looking for is "regulatory capture". RC is like gravity. Any plan which ignores it or tries to legislate it away is wrong, no matter how well-intentioned.
- rdtsc 15y ago
  > It strikes me that the FDA is powerless Because of stuff like this: http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/politics/revolvingdoor.html http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/politics/revolvingdoor.html why would you expect anything else? Not sure what the solution is but there is definitely a problem. It is not just the FDA. Most regulatory agencies have this problem in our country.
- stevetursi 15y ago
  I've learned a lot about this issue from books such as Fast Food Nation and movies such as Food Inc, which tend to focus on the incredible power that food industry lobbies seem to have over congress and the FDA. In the case of Fast Food Nation, the issue isn't the expected premise - that McDonalds et al serves low-quality food and causes obesity - that is merely the result. The issue, he seems to claim, is that certain people in the government are literally paid off to allow the industry to do so, both with passive defensive methods (not implementing laws that would restrict them) and active, offensive methods (creating laws that impede initiatives that aren't in the food industry's interest.)
reasonattlm 15y ago
Reading material on the FDA in general: "There is no open marketplace for medical technology in the developed world, however. Instead, we see a very different set of incentives dominating the state of research and development. Regulatory bodies like the FDA have every incentive to stop the release of new medicine: the government employees involved suffer far more from bad press for an approved medical technology than they do from the largely unexamined consequences of heavy regulation. These consequences go far beyond the obvious and announced disapproval of specific medical technologies: the far greater cost lies in all the research, innovation and development that was never undertaken because regulatory burdens ensure there would be no profit for the developer. Personal gain for the regulator is thus to destroy the gains of people they will never meet, the exact opposite of what occurs in an open marketplace." http://www.fdareview.org http://www.fdareview.org http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/11/an-unusually-clear-example-of-the-cost-of-the-fda.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/11/an-unusually-clea... http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/12/when-you-make-medical-progress-illegal-what-results-is-a-black-market-in-medical-progress.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/12/when-you-make-med... http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2010/03/the-roadblock-that-is-the-fda.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2010/03/the-roadblock-tha... http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2008/05/envisaging-a-world-without-the-fda.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2008/05/envisaging-a-worl... https://www.opencures.org/content/open-cures-speed-clinical-development-longevity-science https://www.opencures.org/content/open-cures-speed-clinical-...
- roc 15y ago
  It seems fairly disingenuous to point out the misaligned incentives of regulators without mentioning the misaligned incentives of industry. The FDA was created in response to the state of industry absent regulation. It is not an ideal construct, but arguments against its very existence don't pass the smell test. Also not passing the smell test? The idea that a regulator trying to protect his government paycheck and reputation has more power than billion dollar industries. Not in the United States. Not when our regulatory agency's recent histories read the way they do. It's laughable to cast the FDA as an impassable obstacle.
tptacek 15y ago
Submission from an account that submits only stories from The Atlantic: http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=nbj914 http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=nbj914 I like the Atlantic --- a lot --- but look at the titles of those stories, and look at this story, and ask whether these submissions are in the spirit of the site guidelines. I flagged the post. I wouldn't have if this was really a comprehensive critique of the FDA, but it's not; it's just a position piece about factory farming.
- DanielBMarkham 15y ago
  One of the things I'd like to know is how The Atlantic ended up with so much HN coverage. I like it from time to time, but not a day passes without an article from there on here, many times multiple articles, and that's kind of weird.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    One obvious explanation: there are accounts that do nothing but submit Atlantic stories to HN. Another one, more saddening: the Atlantic has in the past 2 years crafted an online presence that basically competes tit-for-tat with Slate, meaning a lot of clipped little blog posts (often from guest writers) and fewer long-form narrative journalism pieces. Also, Graham has more or less let go of the "what's on-topic for HN" site guideline.
- lawnchair_larry 15y ago
  It's about as in the spirit of the site guidelines as saying that you flagged the post ;)

24 points by nbj914 15y ago

casca 15y ago

Who doesn't like cheap meat? Externalities FTW.

bmj 15y ago

It strikes me that the FDA is powerless in the face of the corporate lobby. While allowing CAFOs (among others) to "police themselves," the FDA aggressively pursues raw milk producers and farm-to-table organizations [http://farmtoconsumer.org/quail-hollow-farm-dinner.htm http://farmtoconsumer.org/quail-hollow-farm-dinner.htm] because no one with deep pockets is protecting these folks politically.

anamax 15y ago
> It strikes me that the FDA is powerless in the face of the corporate lobby. The term that you're looking for is "regulatory capture". RC is like gravity. Any plan which ignores it or tries to legislate it away is wrong, no matter how well-intentioned.
rdtsc 15y ago
> It strikes me that the FDA is powerless Because of stuff like this: http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/politics/revolvingdoor.html http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/politics/revolvingdoor.html why would you expect anything else? Not sure what the solution is but there is definitely a problem. It is not just the FDA. Most regulatory agencies have this problem in our country.
stevetursi 15y ago
I've learned a lot about this issue from books such as Fast Food Nation and movies such as Food Inc, which tend to focus on the incredible power that food industry lobbies seem to have over congress and the FDA. In the case of Fast Food Nation, the issue isn't the expected premise - that McDonalds et al serves low-quality food and causes obesity - that is merely the result. The issue, he seems to claim, is that certain people in the government are literally paid off to allow the industry to do so, both with passive defensive methods (not implementing laws that would restrict them) and active, offensive methods (creating laws that impede initiatives that aren't in the food industry's interest.)

reasonattlm 15y ago

Reading material on the FDA in general: "There is no open marketplace for medical technology in the developed world, however. Instead, we see a very different set of incentives dominating the state of research and development. Regulatory bodies like the FDA have every incentive to stop the release of new medicine: the government employees involved suffer far more from bad press for an approved medical technology than they do from the largely unexamined consequences of heavy regulation. These consequences go far beyond the obvious and announced disapproval of specific medical technologies: the far greater cost lies in all the research, innovation and development that was never undertaken because regulatory burdens ensure there would be no profit for the developer. Personal gain for the regulator is thus to destroy the gains of people they will never meet, the exact opposite of what occurs in an open marketplace." http://www.fdareview.org http://www.fdareview.org http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/11/an-unusually-clear-example-of-the-cost-of-the-fda.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/11/an-unusually-clea... http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/12/when-you-make-medical-progress-illegal-what-results-is-a-black-market-in-medical-progress.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/12/when-you-make-med... http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2010/03/the-roadblock-that-is-the-fda.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2010/03/the-roadblock-tha... http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2008/05/envisaging-a-world-without-the-fda.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2008/05/envisaging-a-worl... https://www.opencures.org/content/open-cures-speed-clinical-development-longevity-science https://www.opencures.org/content/open-cures-speed-clinical-...

roc 15y ago
It seems fairly disingenuous to point out the misaligned incentives of regulators without mentioning the misaligned incentives of industry. The FDA was created in response to the state of industry absent regulation. It is not an ideal construct, but arguments against its very existence don't pass the smell test. Also not passing the smell test? The idea that a regulator trying to protect his government paycheck and reputation has more power than billion dollar industries. Not in the United States. Not when our regulatory agency's recent histories read the way they do. It's laughable to cast the FDA as an impassable obstacle.

tptacek 15y ago

Submission from an account that submits only stories from The Atlantic: http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=nbj914 http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=nbj914 I like the Atlantic --- a lot --- but look at the titles of those stories, and look at this story, and ask whether these submissions are in the spirit of the site guidelines. I flagged the post. I wouldn't have if this was really a comprehensive critique of the FDA, but it's not; it's just a position piece about factory farming.

DanielBMarkham 15y ago
One of the things I'd like to know is how The Atlantic ended up with so much HN coverage. I like it from time to time, but not a day passes without an article from there on here, many times multiple articles, and that's kind of weird.
- tptacek 15y ago
  One obvious explanation: there are accounts that do nothing but submit Atlantic stories to HN. Another one, more saddening: the Atlantic has in the past 2 years crafted an online presence that basically competes tit-for-tat with Slate, meaning a lot of clipped little blog posts (often from guest writers) and fewer long-form narrative journalism pieces. Also, Graham has more or less let go of the "what's on-topic for HN" site guideline.
lawnchair_larry 15y ago
It's about as in the spirit of the site guidelines as saying that you flagged the post ;)