3 ms·

Even assuming that this can be turned into practical product, 10 minute charge? With a typical EV battery on the order of 80KWh? That's 480KW charging, probab

Even assuming that this can be turned into practical product, 10 minute charge? With a typical EV battery on the order of 80KWh? That's 480KW charging, probably more because charge current isn't uniform over the charge cycle. Half a megawatt per charger bay. The electrical infrastructure for mass deployment of this sort of thing will really be interesting.

clouddrover 4y ago
> That's 480KW charging Here you go: https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charger/ https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charge... https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-charger-well-below-previously-rumored-600-kw/ https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-... https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-add-250-miles-to-an-ev-in-just-10-minutes/ https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-... https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-debuts-480-kw-four-gun-charger/ https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-...
- gus_massa 4y ago
  From the fist article: > XPeng's new S4 ultra-fast charger, first announced in late 2021, is an 800 volt class EV charger with a peak power output of 480 kW (at up to 670 A and at over 700 V). You will need definitively a new electrical installation to use that at home, and many safety measures to ensure morons are not fried.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    High power DC fast chargers are not meant for residential installation.
  - Tuna-Fish 4y ago
    For residential installation, you don't want fast charging. Slow charging damages the battery less, and for everyday use getting to full charge overnight is sufficient. When you need to fast charge, you should go do it at a charger.
_hypx 4y ago
Which is why hydrogen cars need to be taken seriously. Not everyone is going to have access to a private charger, nor is it realistic to put up 0.5 MW chargers everywhere. There are millions of people that are better served by a car powered by fuel.
- Rygian 4y ago
  I would argue that whatever investment is needed for beefier EV charging is always going to be orders of magnitude cheaper and simpler, not to mention efficient, than the most basic network of hydrogen pump stations. This is just a gut feeling.
  - _hypx 4y ago
    You'd be wrong. A hydrogen infrastructure would have the same footprint as gasoline/diesel. The stations are already there, they just need to be converted. Hydrogen distribution will mostly reuse natural gas infrastructure. On the other hand, a charging network will means a drastic expansion of power infrastructure and many new charging stations on new land. The efficiency of electricity is also more hype than reality. If it is coming from fossil fuel power plants, it is not notably more efficient nor green. If it is from renewable energy, then you need to solve the problem of energy storage, which ironically is most easily solved via hydrogen. Nevermind the fact that you have to deal with the upfront energy needed for battery production, undermining the argument in a big way. And of course, nothing is more efficient than not driving at all. Mass transit and walkable neighborhoods should be the main goal of green transportation. Cars are mostly a distraction and should not be emphasized. We only tolerate them because not every transportation problem can be solved in that way. They are the fallback solution. As a fallback solution, hydrogen cars make a lot of sense, especially for those who can't justify an EV. Certainly more sensible than demanding only EVs for all cars.
    - rolenthedeep 4y ago
      If you were to convert gas stations to hydrogen stations, you'd have to change out all the tanks and fluid handling equipment. Equipment to handle fluid at atmospheric pressure is very different from that which handles high pressure gas/fluid. You'd have to replace the underground tanks, all of the associate plumbing, and the pumps on the surface. That's going to cost just as much as building the gas station in the first place. That's assuming you're trucking in liquid hydrogen. If you want to put it in underground pipes, you're going to have an even worse time. You need heavily insulated pipes running at extreme pressures. Those pipes also need special coatings to prevent the hydrogen atoms from leaking out. This is far from a simple case of "just reuse gas stations". Hydrogen presents an order of magnitude more problems than gasoline. Gasoline's main benefit is that it's pretty stable at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. It's easy to handle and store, and vanishes into the air at a much slower rate.

clouddrover 4y ago

> That's 480KW charging Here you go: https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charger/ https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charge... https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-charger-well-below-previously-rumored-600-kw/ https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-... https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-add-250-miles-to-an-ev-in-just-10-minutes/ https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-... https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-debuts-480-kw-four-gun-charger/ https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-...

gus_massa 4y ago
From the fist article: > XPeng's new S4 ultra-fast charger, first announced in late 2021, is an 800 volt class EV charger with a peak power output of 480 kW (at up to 670 A and at over 700 V). You will need definitively a new electrical installation to use that at home, and many safety measures to ensure morons are not fried.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  High power DC fast chargers are not meant for residential installation.
- Tuna-Fish 4y ago
  For residential installation, you don't want fast charging. Slow charging damages the battery less, and for everyday use getting to full charge overnight is sufficient. When you need to fast charge, you should go do it at a charger.

_hypx 4y ago

Which is why hydrogen cars need to be taken seriously. Not everyone is going to have access to a private charger, nor is it realistic to put up 0.5 MW chargers everywhere. There are millions of people that are better served by a car powered by fuel.

Rygian 4y ago
I would argue that whatever investment is needed for beefier EV charging is always going to be orders of magnitude cheaper and simpler, not to mention efficient, than the most basic network of hydrogen pump stations. This is just a gut feeling.
- _hypx 4y ago
  You'd be wrong. A hydrogen infrastructure would have the same footprint as gasoline/diesel. The stations are already there, they just need to be converted. Hydrogen distribution will mostly reuse natural gas infrastructure. On the other hand, a charging network will means a drastic expansion of power infrastructure and many new charging stations on new land. The efficiency of electricity is also more hype than reality. If it is coming from fossil fuel power plants, it is not notably more efficient nor green. If it is from renewable energy, then you need to solve the problem of energy storage, which ironically is most easily solved via hydrogen. Nevermind the fact that you have to deal with the upfront energy needed for battery production, undermining the argument in a big way. And of course, nothing is more efficient than not driving at all. Mass transit and walkable neighborhoods should be the main goal of green transportation. Cars are mostly a distraction and should not be emphasized. We only tolerate them because not every transportation problem can be solved in that way. They are the fallback solution. As a fallback solution, hydrogen cars make a lot of sense, especially for those who can't justify an EV. Certainly more sensible than demanding only EVs for all cars.
  - rolenthedeep 4y ago
    If you were to convert gas stations to hydrogen stations, you'd have to change out all the tanks and fluid handling equipment. Equipment to handle fluid at atmospheric pressure is very different from that which handles high pressure gas/fluid. You'd have to replace the underground tanks, all of the associate plumbing, and the pumps on the surface. That's going to cost just as much as building the gas station in the first place. That's assuming you're trucking in liquid hydrogen. If you want to put it in underground pipes, you're going to have an even worse time. You need heavily insulated pipes running at extreme pressures. Those pipes also need special coatings to prevent the hydrogen atoms from leaking out. This is far from a simple case of "just reuse gas stations". Hydrogen presents an order of magnitude more problems than gasoline. Gasoline's main benefit is that it's pretty stable at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. It's easy to handle and store, and vanishes into the air at a much slower rate.