4 ms·

EV battery has 50% more energy density than trad li-ion, 10-minute charge

19 points by ymerej 4y ago

slaw 4y ago
Not even one picture of that battery.
ecpottinger 4y ago
If I can't buy it, then it is worthless garbage. Tell me where I can buy the battery or a car that uses it, otherwise it is just a lot of talk to try and raise the price of a stock.
AgentK20 4y ago
Always happy to see further development in the field of battery chemistry, but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce. More investment and breakthroughs are good, and they push the industry forward, but keep in mind that most people (myself included) would rather a cheaper EV that takes twice as long to charge than vice versa (assuming a base capacity that is enough for all but roadtrips). The article does point out though that short-duration battery-powered flights may be a perfect application for a more pricey but higher-density battery.
- Hermitian909 4y ago
  > but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce This is a good instinct but, FWIW, I'm think there's a good chance we're going to see scale-up costs drop by about an order of magnitude over the next 5 years via fairly straightforward use of ML to reduce on scaleup test iterations. (For readers without context: to scale up battery production you start by making a few grams of materials in a lab, then a few kilograms, then a few tons. At each step there are failures and you have to iterate on production parameters, testing can take a long time as well. Sometimes the whole effort fails). At my last job we worked on this and saw good results, but productionizing them was a ways off.
MarkusWandel 4y ago
Even assuming that this can be turned into practical product, 10 minute charge? With a typical EV battery on the order of 80KWh? That's 480KW charging, probably more because charge current isn't uniform over the charge cycle. Half a megawatt per charger bay. The electrical infrastructure for mass deployment of this sort of thing will really be interesting.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > That's 480KW charging Here you go: https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charger/ https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charge... https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-charger-well-below-previously-rumored-600-kw/ https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-... https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-add-250-miles-to-an-ev-in-just-10-minutes/ https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-... https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-debuts-480-kw-four-gun-charger/ https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-...
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    From the fist article: > XPeng's new S4 ultra-fast charger, first announced in late 2021, is an 800 volt class EV charger with a peak power output of 480 kW (at up to 670 A and at over 700 V). You will need definitively a new electrical installation to use that at home, and many safety measures to ensure morons are not fried.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      High power DC fast chargers are not meant for residential installation.
    - Tuna-Fish 4y ago
      For residential installation, you don't want fast charging. Slow charging damages the battery less, and for everyday use getting to full charge overnight is sufficient. When you need to fast charge, you should go do it at a charger.

19 points by ymerej 4y ago

slaw 4y ago

Not even one picture of that battery.

If I can't buy it, then it is worthless garbage. Tell me where I can buy the battery or a car that uses it, otherwise it is just a lot of talk to try and raise the price of a stock.

AgentK20 4y ago

Always happy to see further development in the field of battery chemistry, but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce. More investment and breakthroughs are good, and they push the industry forward, but keep in mind that most people (myself included) would rather a cheaper EV that takes twice as long to charge than vice versa (assuming a base capacity that is enough for all but roadtrips). The article does point out though that short-duration battery-powered flights may be a perfect application for a more pricey but higher-density battery.

Hermitian909 4y ago
> but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce This is a good instinct but, FWIW, I'm think there's a good chance we're going to see scale-up costs drop by about an order of magnitude over the next 5 years via fairly straightforward use of ML to reduce on scaleup test iterations. (For readers without context: to scale up battery production you start by making a few grams of materials in a lab, then a few kilograms, then a few tons. At each step there are failures and you have to iterate on production parameters, testing can take a long time as well. Sometimes the whole effort fails). At my last job we worked on this and saw good results, but productionizing them was a ways off.

MarkusWandel 4y ago

Even assuming that this can be turned into practical product, 10 minute charge? With a typical EV battery on the order of 80KWh? That's 480KW charging, probably more because charge current isn't uniform over the charge cycle. Half a megawatt per charger bay. The electrical infrastructure for mass deployment of this sort of thing will really be interesting.

clouddrover 4y ago
> That's 480KW charging Here you go: https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charger/ https://insideevs.com/news/604407/xpeng-480kw-s4-fast-charge... https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-charger-well-below-previously-rumored-600-kw/ https://electrek.co/2021/08/30/gac-aion-unveils-480-kw-fast-... https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-add-250-miles-to-an-ev-in-just-10-minutes/ https://www.theautopian.com/autels-480-kw-charger-claims-to-... https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-debuts-480-kw-four-gun-charger/ https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/11/phihong-company-zerova-...
- gus_massa 4y ago
  From the fist article: > XPeng's new S4 ultra-fast charger, first announced in late 2021, is an 800 volt class EV charger with a peak power output of 480 kW (at up to 670 A and at over 700 V). You will need definitively a new electrical installation to use that at home, and many safety measures to ensure morons are not fried.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    High power DC fast chargers are not meant for residential installation.
  - Tuna-Fish 4y ago
    For residential installation, you don't want fast charging. Slow charging damages the battery less, and for everyday use getting to full charge overnight is sufficient. When you need to fast charge, you should go do it at a charger.