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The shootdowns did not involve using airplane guns/cannons. Those are less accurate, especially at the engagement range (the aircraft were at 40,000 ft., IIRC,
by jcrites 4y ago
The shootdowns did not involve using airplane guns/cannons. Those are less accurate, especially at the engagement range (the aircraft were at 40,000 ft., IIRC, and shooting at 60,000 ft. balloons), and would have likely damaged the payload.
The shoot-downs used AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles (per TFA). We also don’t know the ceiling altitude of the F-22 since it’s classified.
However, the F-22 can carry the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile (AMRAAM) which has a disclosed engagement altitude of 70,000 feet - capable of engaging even higher altitude balloons than these. As I understand it, the Extended Range AMRAAM-ER is believed to have an engagement ceiling of 85,000 feet.
Meanwhile, the US also has the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-ballistic missile system, an air defense system capable of engaging targets at very high altitude. While its capabilities are classified, its max engagement altitude is at least 490,000 ft. or 93 miles … though using it to attack a balloon is like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. THAAD is mobile and could be deployed in response to a high altitude balloon threat (some of which can fly 120,000 ft.)
- cm2187 4y agoYeah but none of those things are cheap. A cannon is.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y agoWho says it needs to be cheap? If your budget for X is $Y, there is no benefit to spending less than $Y when you need to do X.
- jcrites 4y agoTrue, but the max effective range of the F-22’s 20mm M61A2 Vulcan cannon is about 2000 feet (600m), which isn’t nearly enough to engage these balloons — assuming an F-22 is flying at 40,000 ft. vs. a balloon at 60,000 ft. Even if the ceiling of the F-22 is substantially higher than 40,000 ft. (which I think is plausible), and is close enough to effectively engage these balloons, then I doubt that the Air Force would choose to make the tradeoff of disclosing the F-22’s performance capabilities to adversaries in order to save the cost of an AIM-9; the F-22’s performance is a secret and classified. If we were faced with defending against a large number of high-flying objects then the reasoning might be different.
- SAI_Peregrinus 4y agoThe USAF "fact sheet" page on the F-22[1] states "above 50,000 ft" flight ceiling. Wikipedia lists 65,000 ft but provides no easily verifiable citation (none of the citations for the section that I could retrieve online list that figure). [1] https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104506/f-22-raptor/ https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1045...
- _boffin_ 4y agoYou may what to change up your definition of a 20mm round against a balloon. The statistics you reference is about accuracy and penetration. Take a look at distance until subsonic.
- LgWoodenBadger 4y agoThere are regular competitions at sea level with .30 cal rounds at ranges of 1000 yards. 600m is likely the default battle-zero, but it is nowhere near the maximum range of a 30mm round.
- nikcub 4y agoI'm going to ask what might seem like a naive question - but how do you get a sidewinder to lock onto the balloon part of the balloon and not hit the payload?
- moomoo11 4y agoyes