6 ms·

I'd rather my own government spy on me than China. I'd rather Hannibal fucking Lecter be able to see me through my webcam than China.

sschueller 4y ago
I would too but Europe sold all its companies to the US and China.
- ginko 4y ago
  You know Nokia and Ericsson are still huge players in telecom technology right?
  - partiallypro 4y ago
    Nokia was sold to Microsoft, then they sold it to HMD Global Oy /FoxConn and now they make most of their goods in China, almost to the point of being white labelled. Ericsson is a small company compared to what it once was. Sure, technically European (again) but a shell of their former selves.
    - demuxxed 4y ago
      Nokia the phones are completely distinct from Nokia the telecoms infrastructure provider. HMD licenses the Nokia name from the telecoms equipment manufacturer. 3 big deals happened at Nokia. They sold the devices business to MS. They acquired the Siemens half of Nokia Siemens Networks. They acquired Alcatel Lucent (French Alcatel and American descendant of Bell Lucent) and merged it with what was NSN. They sell every component of the modern networking stack from 5g antennas to undersea cables.
    - tpmx 4y ago
      https://www.lightreading.com/5g/ericssons-market-share-has-rocketed-yet-investors-are-unhappy/d/d-id/779002 https://www.lightreading.com/5g/ericssons-market-share-has-r... Outside China, though, Ericsson now claims to serve more operators than just about any other vendor. Ekholm today put Ericsson's share of the market for radio access network (RAN) products at 39%, excluding China, telling analysts it has grown from just 33% when he took over in 2017. Fifty percent of 5G traffic outside China runs over Ericsson, he said, while 16 of the world's top 20 operators are using its 5G core.
tsimionescu 4y ago
Your own government has a much higher ability to affect your life than China does, so what you're saying is completely irrational. Not that it's OK for the Chinese to spy on us, mind you, or to claim that they don't have nefarious purposes.
- Mindless2112 4y ago
  You can bring your own government to account for what it does. You can do nothing about what what China does.
  - cute_boi 4y ago
    > You can bring your own government to account for what it does Our government is so powerful, you can't even make a dent.
    - tastyfreeze 4y ago
      We will see. Interesting things happening in congress this week. I'm too jaded to let myself get very hopeful about outcomes. But it does look like a dent was made with McCarthy's concessions to get confirmed as speaker.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Assuming you ever find out. I don't doubt Western governments have the ability to spy on their citizens as needed, and it's likely at some point most of us have been spied on in some minor way, but unless we happened to be doing something particularly nefarious at the point it happened, very unlikely they'd bother acting on it*. Whereas I very much doubt China could see much advantage in trying to spy on an average citizen from another country at all. * unless perhaps you were applying for military clearance
    - Mindless2112 4y ago
      Blackmail (demanding favors rather than money) and industrial espionage come to mind. https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/15/china_shenzhen_zhenhua_database/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/15/china_shenzhen_zhenhu...
smcl 4y ago
Why, though? Your own government has far more power over you and far more reason to be interested in you than China ever would (unless you're a prominent critic of China, politically connected, or involved in military intelligence or something like that). I mean I don't want anyone spying on me, but I'm less worried about China targetting me than the Czech government (where I live) or the UK one (where I'm from).
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  Your own govt isn't going to sabotage its infrastructure in war with an adversary.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Ok please tell me how me personally worrying about that will protect said infrastructure in any way.
    - mikrotikker 4y ago
      Well for one you'll be able to inform and request your local govt to avoid using Chinese equipment in infrastructure.
- mulmen 4y ago
  Because in a democracy I have the ability to control my government. Far more so than if I lived under a dictatorship. > far more reason to be interested in you than China ever would I think this is naive. Psyops are real and are made more effective with knowledge of personal preference and habits. It is likely that Chinese intelligence has targeted literally everyone on the Internet in some way.

sschueller 4y ago

I would too but Europe sold all its companies to the US and China.

ginko 4y ago
You know Nokia and Ericsson are still huge players in telecom technology right?
- partiallypro 4y ago
  Nokia was sold to Microsoft, then they sold it to HMD Global Oy /FoxConn and now they make most of their goods in China, almost to the point of being white labelled. Ericsson is a small company compared to what it once was. Sure, technically European (again) but a shell of their former selves.
  - demuxxed 4y ago
    Nokia the phones are completely distinct from Nokia the telecoms infrastructure provider. HMD licenses the Nokia name from the telecoms equipment manufacturer. 3 big deals happened at Nokia. They sold the devices business to MS. They acquired the Siemens half of Nokia Siemens Networks. They acquired Alcatel Lucent (French Alcatel and American descendant of Bell Lucent) and merged it with what was NSN. They sell every component of the modern networking stack from 5g antennas to undersea cables.
  - tpmx 4y ago
    https://www.lightreading.com/5g/ericssons-market-share-has-rocketed-yet-investors-are-unhappy/d/d-id/779002 https://www.lightreading.com/5g/ericssons-market-share-has-r... Outside China, though, Ericsson now claims to serve more operators than just about any other vendor. Ekholm today put Ericsson's share of the market for radio access network (RAN) products at 39%, excluding China, telling analysts it has grown from just 33% when he took over in 2017. Fifty percent of 5G traffic outside China runs over Ericsson, he said, while 16 of the world's top 20 operators are using its 5G core.

tsimionescu 4y ago

Your own government has a much higher ability to affect your life than China does, so what you're saying is completely irrational. Not that it's OK for the Chinese to spy on us, mind you, or to claim that they don't have nefarious purposes.

Mindless2112 4y ago
You can bring your own government to account for what it does. You can do nothing about what what China does.
- cute_boi 4y ago
  > You can bring your own government to account for what it does Our government is so powerful, you can't even make a dent.
  - tastyfreeze 4y ago
    We will see. Interesting things happening in congress this week. I'm too jaded to let myself get very hopeful about outcomes. But it does look like a dent was made with McCarthy's concessions to get confirmed as speaker.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Assuming you ever find out. I don't doubt Western governments have the ability to spy on their citizens as needed, and it's likely at some point most of us have been spied on in some minor way, but unless we happened to be doing something particularly nefarious at the point it happened, very unlikely they'd bother acting on it*. Whereas I very much doubt China could see much advantage in trying to spy on an average citizen from another country at all. * unless perhaps you were applying for military clearance
  - Mindless2112 4y ago
    Blackmail (demanding favors rather than money) and industrial espionage come to mind. https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/15/china_shenzhen_zhenhua_database/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/15/china_shenzhen_zhenhu...

smcl 4y ago

Why, though? Your own government has far more power over you and far more reason to be interested in you than China ever would (unless you're a prominent critic of China, politically connected, or involved in military intelligence or something like that). I mean I don't want anyone spying on me, but I'm less worried about China targetting me than the Czech government (where I live) or the UK one (where I'm from).

mikrotikker 4y ago
Your own govt isn't going to sabotage its infrastructure in war with an adversary.
- smcl 4y ago
  Ok please tell me how me personally worrying about that will protect said infrastructure in any way.
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    Well for one you'll be able to inform and request your local govt to avoid using Chinese equipment in infrastructure.
mulmen 4y ago
Because in a democracy I have the ability to control my government. Far more so than if I lived under a dictatorship. > far more reason to be interested in you than China ever would I think this is naive. Psyops are real and are made more effective with knowledge of personal preference and habits. It is likely that Chinese intelligence has targeted literally everyone on the Internet in some way.