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I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage un

I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage until you prove you are not a criminal.

cmeacham98 4y ago
Common with offshore online casinos: you can deposit and lose your money, but as soon as you try to withdraw winnings the KYC rolls out and you better hope you're not a US citizen because you weren't even supposed to sign up in the first place then.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? Shouldn't it have to be either "we'll reset everything back to before you gambled" or "everything you already did stands; you just can't do anymore (and are probably in trouble)"?
  - earnesti 4y ago
    It is likely not legal but the gamblers are too lazy to take it to courts I would guess, and the casinos are in jurisdictions where it might be really tedious or expensive.
  - cmeacham98 4y ago
    It probably isn't, but generally their ToS says you're not allowed to be in the US when you sign up, and they don't operate in the US. So you'd have to go sue them in the jurisdiction of whatever island nation they're operating in (or get the authorities there to care). Additionally, if you're within the majority of people who deposit money and lose it all you're not going to even know this unless you do some active research about the casino.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Why couldn't such a judgment be enforced from a US court, by forbidding any American banks from sending any money to their bank until they pay up?
      - cmeacham98 4y ago
        These sites typically operate using deposits/withdrawals in cryptocurrency.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? I don't know the actual law is, but it could be that the customer is the one who committed the crime of illegal gambling. If that's the case, it doesn't matter if keeping his winnings is legal or illegal, if the gambler brings suit he puts himself in legal jeopardy and I don't think the courts will enforce contracts associated with illegal activities (e.g. a hitman can't go to court to force his client to pay).
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      > a hitman can't go to court to force his client to pay Somehow I doubt that causes many problems in trying to collect from clients.
  - tedunangst 4y ago
    To the extent it's about money laundering, if you lose the money and don't withdraw it, you're not laundering it.
  - layer8 4y ago
    They probably count on you not suing them in the offshore jurisdiction.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    Presumably for the same reason you can't call the police if an illegal drug deal goes bad. [1] [1] Which, yes, actually happens. E.g.: https://www.wect.com/story/22122424/man-calls-911-to-report-drug-dealer-didnt-bring-marijuana-cocaine/ https://www.wect.com/story/22122424/man-calls-911-to-report-...
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    Usually, it is all deposits minus all withdrawals are refunded. The casino will be in the red here, due to provider costs.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- patriciaaa 4y ago
  [dead]
wolongong942 4y ago
Sites like Paypal and Skrill did this because they know most people would otherwise just cancel on sign up , and when you've got money locked in you have no choice but to complete verification. Thankfully i haven't had to deal with their crap in the past 4 years due to better options existing.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  You cannot end such a compelling sentence.. and not finish your thoughts in writing!! What are the better options?
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    wise.com for example.
    - abofh 4y ago
      Wise has brutal aml and zero kyc - I was abroad and using wise as I thought it intended, as a means to transfer from my US accounts to my EU accounts, both happy and kyc'd through the roof. Account closed, would you like to click a button that feigns an appeals process? Click here to have it instantly denied!
  - from 4y ago
    Hint: Starts with “adv” and ends with “cash”
- alternatetwo 4y ago
  My brother actually abandoned 50€ 10+ years ago because he refused to do that verification ... I wonder if he could actually get that money back in any way still ...
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
Its well defined laws and aml directives, there is little ambiguity but those are the laws our dear politicians have passed.

I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage until you prove you are not a criminal.

cmeacham98 4y ago

Common with offshore online casinos: you can deposit and lose your money, but as soon as you try to withdraw winnings the KYC rolls out and you better hope you're not a US citizen because you weren't even supposed to sign up in the first place then.

josephcsible 4y ago
Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? Shouldn't it have to be either "we'll reset everything back to before you gambled" or "everything you already did stands; you just can't do anymore (and are probably in trouble)"?
- earnesti 4y ago
  It is likely not legal but the gamblers are too lazy to take it to courts I would guess, and the casinos are in jurisdictions where it might be really tedious or expensive.
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  It probably isn't, but generally their ToS says you're not allowed to be in the US when you sign up, and they don't operate in the US. So you'd have to go sue them in the jurisdiction of whatever island nation they're operating in (or get the authorities there to care). Additionally, if you're within the majority of people who deposit money and lose it all you're not going to even know this unless you do some active research about the casino.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Why couldn't such a judgment be enforced from a US court, by forbidding any American banks from sending any money to their bank until they pay up?
    - cmeacham98 4y ago
      These sites typically operate using deposits/withdrawals in cryptocurrency.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? I don't know the actual law is, but it could be that the customer is the one who committed the crime of illegal gambling. If that's the case, it doesn't matter if keeping his winnings is legal or illegal, if the gambler brings suit he puts himself in legal jeopardy and I don't think the courts will enforce contracts associated with illegal activities (e.g. a hitman can't go to court to force his client to pay).
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > a hitman can't go to court to force his client to pay Somehow I doubt that causes many problems in trying to collect from clients.
- tedunangst 4y ago
  To the extent it's about money laundering, if you lose the money and don't withdraw it, you're not laundering it.
- layer8 4y ago
  They probably count on you not suing them in the offshore jurisdiction.
- wpietri 4y ago
  Presumably for the same reason you can't call the police if an illegal drug deal goes bad. [1] [1] Which, yes, actually happens. E.g.: https://www.wect.com/story/22122424/man-calls-911-to-report-drug-dealer-didnt-bring-marijuana-cocaine/ https://www.wect.com/story/22122424/man-calls-911-to-report-...
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  Usually, it is all deposits minus all withdrawals are refunded. The casino will be in the red here, due to provider costs.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
patriciaaa 4y ago
[dead]

wolongong942 4y ago

Sites like Paypal and Skrill did this because they know most people would otherwise just cancel on sign up , and when you've got money locked in you have no choice but to complete verification. Thankfully i haven't had to deal with their crap in the past 4 years due to better options existing.

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
You cannot end such a compelling sentence.. and not finish your thoughts in writing!! What are the better options?
- scrollaway 4y ago
  wise.com for example.
  - abofh 4y ago
    Wise has brutal aml and zero kyc - I was abroad and using wise as I thought it intended, as a means to transfer from my US accounts to my EU accounts, both happy and kyc'd through the roof. Account closed, would you like to click a button that feigns an appeals process? Click here to have it instantly denied!
- from 4y ago
  Hint: Starts with “adv” and ends with “cash”
alternatetwo 4y ago
My brother actually abandoned 50€ 10+ years ago because he refused to do that verification ... I wonder if he could actually get that money back in any way still ...

omgomgomgomg 4y ago

Its well defined laws and aml directives, there is little ambiguity but those are the laws our dear politicians have passed.