6 ms·

Not OP, but it is incorrect terminology. An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. In

Not OP, but it is incorrect terminology. An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. These case studies are all people that jumped in and tried to make a short-term profit off of market trends. This is very risky and akin to gambling; the formal terminology though is speculator, not investor.

maximinus_thrax 4y ago
> An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. Agree to disagree. An investor is someone who buys into financial vehicles with the intent of making more money. That's it. There are different types of investors but how they actually do it is an 'implementation detail'. You can be an investor and a speculator at the same time. While you're hold the stock, you can proxy vote, you can sell the stock, you're by definition an investor. EDIT: What does the IRS consider you an investor if you made money from stocks? Or do they check to see if you're interested in 'the fundamentals' first? Do they investment income and expenses like capital gains and such to be 'investment' incomes or 'speculation' incomes depending on your 'system' of investments? Asking for a friend to check if they'd get a tax break because they weren't real investors.
- toomanyrichies 4y ago
  By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". If we broaden the definition of "investor" as much as you're describing, the word becomes meaningless. It's important to distinguish between "investors" and "speculators", and this is how we do so.
  - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
    > By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". No, because the casino does not sell securities (re-read my comment, please). You're conflating how the market behaves (or how specific stock behaves) vs the market itself. Ask the tax man, does money from casinos get taxed differently than capital gains from stock sells? Why is that? > If we broaden the definition of "investor" I'm not broadening anything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor
    - toomanyrichies 4y ago
      I see your Wikipedia quote and raise you one from BankRate: "Investors take a systematic approach to growing their wealth, buying assets with reasonable levels of risk in exchange for long-term growth. Speculators, on the other hand, buy assets that may experience rapid growth but can also lose their entire value if they go out of favor... Popular assets such as stocks and bonds can be investments or speculative assets, depending on how you approach them." [1] > An investor is someone who buys into financial vehicles with the intent of making more money. OK, fair enough, you did say "buys into financial vehicles", which excludes playing the slots. Regardless, and if for no other reason than to debate with a shared vocabulary, I still contend that it's important to distinguish between someone who takes calculated risks based on thorough research and industry knowledge vs. someone who does the Wall Street equivalent of "playing a hot tip at the race track". If you agree with that, how do you propose we do that, if not with different terms for different concepts? And if you don't agree that the distinction is important, how do you propose that someone looking for a money manager make their criteria clear to others? EDIT: I wouldn't base your opinion of who is or isn't an investor on what the IRS says. This is the same organization which said that buying a clarinet for your child is a medical expense, after an orthodontist argued that playing it helped correct their kid's overbite. [2] 1. https://www.bankrate.com/investing/investing-vs-speculating https://www.bankrate.com/investing/investing-vs-speculating 2. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/tax-deductions-and-credits/10-strange-but-legitimate-federal-tax-deductions/L6A6QzGiV https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/tax-deductions-and-cred...

maximinus_thrax 4y ago

> An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. Agree to disagree. An investor is someone who buys into financial vehicles with the intent of making more money. That's it. There are different types of investors but how they actually do it is an 'implementation detail'. You can be an investor and a speculator at the same time. While you're hold the stock, you can proxy vote, you can sell the stock, you're by definition an investor. EDIT: What does the IRS consider you an investor if you made money from stocks? Or do they check to see if you're interested in 'the fundamentals' first? Do they investment income and expenses like capital gains and such to be 'investment' incomes or 'speculation' incomes depending on your 'system' of investments? Asking for a friend to check if they'd get a tax break because they weren't real investors.

toomanyrichies 4y ago
By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". If we broaden the definition of "investor" as much as you're describing, the word becomes meaningless. It's important to distinguish between "investors" and "speculators", and this is how we do so.
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  > By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". No, because the casino does not sell securities (re-read my comment, please). You're conflating how the market behaves (or how specific stock behaves) vs the market itself. Ask the tax man, does money from casinos get taxed differently than capital gains from stock sells? Why is that? > If we broaden the definition of "investor" I'm not broadening anything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor
  - toomanyrichies 4y ago
    I see your Wikipedia quote and raise you one from BankRate: "Investors take a systematic approach to growing their wealth, buying assets with reasonable levels of risk in exchange for long-term growth. Speculators, on the other hand, buy assets that may experience rapid growth but can also lose their entire value if they go out of favor... Popular assets such as stocks and bonds can be investments or speculative assets, depending on how you approach them." [1] > An investor is someone who buys into financial vehicles with the intent of making more money. OK, fair enough, you did say "buys into financial vehicles", which excludes playing the slots. Regardless, and if for no other reason than to debate with a shared vocabulary, I still contend that it's important to distinguish between someone who takes calculated risks based on thorough research and industry knowledge vs. someone who does the Wall Street equivalent of "playing a hot tip at the race track". If you agree with that, how do you propose we do that, if not with different terms for different concepts? And if you don't agree that the distinction is important, how do you propose that someone looking for a money manager make their criteria clear to others? EDIT: I wouldn't base your opinion of who is or isn't an investor on what the IRS says. This is the same organization which said that buying a clarinet for your child is a medical expense, after an orthodontist argued that playing it helped correct their kid's overbite. [2] 1. https://www.bankrate.com/investing/investing-vs-speculating https://www.bankrate.com/investing/investing-vs-speculating 2. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/tax-deductions-and-credits/10-strange-but-legitimate-federal-tax-deductions/L6A6QzGiV https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/tax-deductions-and-cred...