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Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will d

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In the meantime, they are printing Trillions and shovelling it to their sycophantic corporate and political elite buddies. And then, they wonder why people are being driven to use Cryptocurrency... For those of you who are offended by this characterization; how does burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements make sense -- when just one FTX incident exceeds the value of all legitimate remittance transactions on the planet for the entire year, and KYC/AML doesn't affect the likes of FTX, Tether, etc. in the least? Perhaps you feel like you're "doing something". You are -- making every law-abiding free Citizen feel like a criminal and expend countless hours of life-energy, to do precisely nothing to solve the problem, while crippling the legitimate small business and personal enterprise of the entire planet. Congratulations!

matheusmoreira 4y ago
> And then, they wonder why people are being driven to use Cryptocurrency... If only. Normal people are only buying crypto to speculate. They drive the price up to absurd levels and then write it all off as a scam when it corrects. Meanwhile good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  You seem to be speaking for ... a lot of people you can't possibly know -- such as me, and every person I work with and deal with on a day to day basis in the Crypto R&D field. As for Monero -- don't complain, let's bring it mainstream by building something. Specifically: something that state-level interference can't stop, even if they're quivering in rage that it exists! That's what us "speculators" who code every day on large-scale Cryptocurrency decentralized systems are doing...
  - novok 4y ago
    Always kind of wondered why monero onlyfans or state weed hasn't happened much. Work that is legal, but the financial system makes an absolute bitch to actually financially transact for.
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      I'm wondering to this day. Prudish financial institutions refusing business to "questionable" businesses are one of the problems cryptocurrencies were intended to solve. But when I suggested that here I got called out for it. No idea why there was so much hostility.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > such as me, and every person I work with and deal with on a day to day basis in the Crypto R&D field. You ended up proving my point. Normal people don't research or develop cryptocurrency technology, they buy and sell it on Binance. It's hard enough for people to understand BTC, the altcoin situation is next to hopeless. > As for Monero -- don't complain, let's bring it mainstream by building something. I've gotten paid anonymously in XMR for a small programming task. It was a wonderful experience, I wish everybody would pay me that way. The technology already already works. If anything still needs to be built, it's even stronger privacy guarantees against the perpetual government encroachment. This is a social problem. How do we get people to drop USD and start using XMR instead? It's a form of the ages old circular logic problem of bootstrapping: nobody uses it to buy things because nobody accepts it, and nobody accepts it because nobody uses it to buy things.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should. Imagine you achieve your Crypto-dream, known mass murderers like the head of Wagner or Kadyrov will move money with impunity. Current system is problematic, but I don't fancy the idea of money being conpletely untouchable by the system of justice
  - notch898a 4y ago
    Yeah then law enforcement would actually have to catch Kadyrov for you know, murdering civilians rather than for moving money. That sounds awful.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    I wonder what else you don't fancy. I mean, your argument is essentially the financial version of the "terrorists and child molesters" argument. Do you also support mandated cryptography backdoors because cryptography also protects criminals? All this mandatory financial reporting for "anti-money laundering" purposes or whatever is just the financial arm of the global panopticon. You're defending total global surveillance and control. You're advocating giving up freedom for security.
ourmandave 4y ago
I dunno, I sent Sam Bankman Fried all my Galactic fiat credits, and suddenly couldn't make withdrawals. I called my senator to look into it, but then I find out the Emperor has dissolved the senate.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  Call a Fett. That's what the bounty hunters are for.
timerol 4y ago
> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the financial system precisely zero times during their lives." It is very much not a complex and arduous situation in most instances, only in very few edge cases. (Which patio11 wants us to pay closer attention to.) I had occasion to unexpectedly transfer $10k over ACH recently, and, while a few minutes on the phone with my bank confirming things was slightly annoying, I would describe it as neither complex nor arduous. I am confident that it did not trigger a CTR or SAR, given it was not a cash transaction, and I was happy to answer a few questions.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  Ihre Papeire bitte. Stop And Frisk. Nobody without something to hide should want privacy/encryption. Forcing 8 Billion people to KYC/AML before buying a coffee or helping a relative isn't too much to ask. Amirite? /s
  - JusticeJuice 4y ago
    Funniest AML thing I ever did. Went to open a new account in the app, it's like sorry you haven't verified your identity can't do it through the app. Okay. Walk into a branch, ask to make a new account. They're like nah, you need to come back with proof of where you live before we can verify your identity. I'm literally standing in front of you. With ID. I already have 3 accounts, what's a 4th?
    - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
      They would need a recent proof of address to know where you live. I know, it is stupid and there are so many ways to fake this, but a bank cant possibly gibe a loan to someone without knowing where they live. Else kim jong il could just walk in with his id etcetc.
- exbanker 4y ago
  This is just factually untrue. AML policies unjustly affect millions of Americans. At US Bank, you can’t deposit cash without an ID which is standard post 2018 or so. Yet go to a US Bank in a low income area, deposit $100 in a family member’s account and they will ask for ID, social security number and your job. US Bank has been involved in multiple money laundering scandals leading to deferred criminal prosecution. Many friends have times where they can’t withdraw their own cash, have had accounts closed, have been falsely reported for fraud without any recourse etc etc. Also because financial fraud and identity theft is rarely prosecuted, regular Americans are bombarded with friction and hassle to transact. People outside normal banking use Chime or prepaid bank cards, which promptly get banned from being used in a wide variety of businesses. AML policies and the Bank Secrecy Act is a violation of the 4th Amendment. The BSA (a misnomer) has expanded in scope since the 70s and as money has inflated. It’s went from an adjusted $70,000+ to $600 today (or $85 in 1970s dollars). And it seems the Supreme Court is going to act on the BSA sometime in the next year. It is a crime against the individual, a violation of civil rights and indefensible. It is purely motivated by tax enforcement and controlling the population. It does not prevent or identify crime. There is an estimated trillion+ of trade based money laundering every year.
wpietri 4y ago
I think it's appropriate you open with Star Wars, as this is mainly fantasy. > burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements Not sure if you read the article, but they just aren't a significant burden for most people. They could be better, sure. And I think the "driven to use Cryptocurrency" example does not pair at all well with FTX. The massive wave of cryptocurrency failures from Mt Gox to FTX demonstrate beautifully why an unregulated financial system is a terrible idea.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  No, you aren’t burdened. The bulk of humanity is, though. The compliance costs in terms of effort/time/money expended per dollar of revenue affected is probably 10x to 100x for them, as it is for you. This has been my experience, and my observation across many life stories. I taught basic finance to hundreds of mid- to low-income families in the 2000’s. So again - a “let them eat cake” admonishion. And FTX was just a massive, traditional fraud. Literally nothing to do with Cryptocurrency, other than as the medium of the fraud. Random charlatans stealing money from gullible and trusting marks. The bulk of the legitimate cryptocurrency platforms continue working. A few that were obvious mathematical impossibilities implode - much like fraudulent businesses have for ages past.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    > No, you aren’t burdened. The bulk of humanity is, though. I look forward to somebody demonstrating that. The author of the article, a domain expert, thinks otherwise. > And FTX was just a massive, traditional fraud. Literally nothing to do with Cryptocurrency, other than as the medium of the fraud. Other than the medium, the culture, the community, the domain, and the regulatory vacuum of cryptocurrency. So a great deal to do with it. And it's not as if it's an outlier for the space. If it's really the burden you are concerned about, you might look again at cryptocurrency. The burden just to use it is relatively high. Then there are the higher caveat emptor burdens. And then we get to the vast, vast sums lost through volatility, exchange costs, user error, incompetence, fraud, and theft. Being upset about KYC/AML and not about that is a situation of motes and beams.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> And then, they wonder why people are being driven to use Cryptocurrency... If only. Normal people are only buying crypto to speculate. They drive the price up to absurd levels and then write it all off as a scam when it corrects. Meanwhile good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should.

pjkundert 4y ago
You seem to be speaking for ... a lot of people you can't possibly know -- such as me, and every person I work with and deal with on a day to day basis in the Crypto R&D field. As for Monero -- don't complain, let's bring it mainstream by building something. Specifically: something that state-level interference can't stop, even if they're quivering in rage that it exists! That's what us "speculators" who code every day on large-scale Cryptocurrency decentralized systems are doing...
- novok 4y ago
  Always kind of wondered why monero onlyfans or state weed hasn't happened much. Work that is legal, but the financial system makes an absolute bitch to actually financially transact for.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    I'm wondering to this day. Prudish financial institutions refusing business to "questionable" businesses are one of the problems cryptocurrencies were intended to solve. But when I suggested that here I got called out for it. No idea why there was so much hostility.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > such as me, and every person I work with and deal with on a day to day basis in the Crypto R&D field. You ended up proving my point. Normal people don't research or develop cryptocurrency technology, they buy and sell it on Binance. It's hard enough for people to understand BTC, the altcoin situation is next to hopeless. > As for Monero -- don't complain, let's bring it mainstream by building something. I've gotten paid anonymously in XMR for a small programming task. It was a wonderful experience, I wish everybody would pay me that way. The technology already already works. If anything still needs to be built, it's even stronger privacy guarantees against the perpetual government encroachment. This is a social problem. How do we get people to drop USD and start using XMR instead? It's a form of the ages old circular logic problem of bootstrapping: nobody uses it to buy things because nobody accepts it, and nobody accepts it because nobody uses it to buy things.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should. Imagine you achieve your Crypto-dream, known mass murderers like the head of Wagner or Kadyrov will move money with impunity. Current system is problematic, but I don't fancy the idea of money being conpletely untouchable by the system of justice
- notch898a 4y ago
  Yeah then law enforcement would actually have to catch Kadyrov for you know, murdering civilians rather than for moving money. That sounds awful.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  I wonder what else you don't fancy. I mean, your argument is essentially the financial version of the "terrorists and child molesters" argument. Do you also support mandated cryptography backdoors because cryptography also protects criminals? All this mandatory financial reporting for "anti-money laundering" purposes or whatever is just the financial arm of the global panopticon. You're defending total global surveillance and control. You're advocating giving up freedom for security.

ourmandave 4y ago

I dunno, I sent Sam Bankman Fried all my Galactic fiat credits, and suddenly couldn't make withdrawals. I called my senator to look into it, but then I find out the Emperor has dissolved the senate.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
Call a Fett. That's what the bounty hunters are for.

timerol 4y ago

> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the financial system precisely zero times during their lives." It is very much not a complex and arduous situation in most instances, only in very few edge cases. (Which patio11 wants us to pay closer attention to.) I had occasion to unexpectedly transfer $10k over ACH recently, and, while a few minutes on the phone with my bank confirming things was slightly annoying, I would describe it as neither complex nor arduous. I am confident that it did not trigger a CTR or SAR, given it was not a cash transaction, and I was happy to answer a few questions.

pjkundert 4y ago
Ihre Papeire bitte. Stop And Frisk. Nobody without something to hide should want privacy/encryption. Forcing 8 Billion people to KYC/AML before buying a coffee or helping a relative isn't too much to ask. Amirite? /s
- JusticeJuice 4y ago
  Funniest AML thing I ever did. Went to open a new account in the app, it's like sorry you haven't verified your identity can't do it through the app. Okay. Walk into a branch, ask to make a new account. They're like nah, you need to come back with proof of where you live before we can verify your identity. I'm literally standing in front of you. With ID. I already have 3 accounts, what's a 4th?
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    They would need a recent proof of address to know where you live. I know, it is stupid and there are so many ways to fake this, but a bank cant possibly gibe a loan to someone without knowing where they live. Else kim jong il could just walk in with his id etcetc.
exbanker 4y ago
This is just factually untrue. AML policies unjustly affect millions of Americans. At US Bank, you can’t deposit cash without an ID which is standard post 2018 or so. Yet go to a US Bank in a low income area, deposit $100 in a family member’s account and they will ask for ID, social security number and your job. US Bank has been involved in multiple money laundering scandals leading to deferred criminal prosecution. Many friends have times where they can’t withdraw their own cash, have had accounts closed, have been falsely reported for fraud without any recourse etc etc. Also because financial fraud and identity theft is rarely prosecuted, regular Americans are bombarded with friction and hassle to transact. People outside normal banking use Chime or prepaid bank cards, which promptly get banned from being used in a wide variety of businesses. AML policies and the Bank Secrecy Act is a violation of the 4th Amendment. The BSA (a misnomer) has expanded in scope since the 70s and as money has inflated. It’s went from an adjusted $70,000+ to $600 today (or $85 in 1970s dollars). And it seems the Supreme Court is going to act on the BSA sometime in the next year. It is a crime against the individual, a violation of civil rights and indefensible. It is purely motivated by tax enforcement and controlling the population. It does not prevent or identify crime. There is an estimated trillion+ of trade based money laundering every year.

wpietri 4y ago

I think it's appropriate you open with Star Wars, as this is mainly fantasy. > burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements Not sure if you read the article, but they just aren't a significant burden for most people. They could be better, sure. And I think the "driven to use Cryptocurrency" example does not pair at all well with FTX. The massive wave of cryptocurrency failures from Mt Gox to FTX demonstrate beautifully why an unregulated financial system is a terrible idea.

pjkundert 4y ago
No, you aren’t burdened. The bulk of humanity is, though. The compliance costs in terms of effort/time/money expended per dollar of revenue affected is probably 10x to 100x for them, as it is for you. This has been my experience, and my observation across many life stories. I taught basic finance to hundreds of mid- to low-income families in the 2000’s. So again - a “let them eat cake” admonishion. And FTX was just a massive, traditional fraud. Literally nothing to do with Cryptocurrency, other than as the medium of the fraud. Random charlatans stealing money from gullible and trusting marks. The bulk of the legitimate cryptocurrency platforms continue working. A few that were obvious mathematical impossibilities implode - much like fraudulent businesses have for ages past.
- wpietri 4y ago
  > No, you aren’t burdened. The bulk of humanity is, though. I look forward to somebody demonstrating that. The author of the article, a domain expert, thinks otherwise. > And FTX was just a massive, traditional fraud. Literally nothing to do with Cryptocurrency, other than as the medium of the fraud. Other than the medium, the culture, the community, the domain, and the regulatory vacuum of cryptocurrency. So a great deal to do with it. And it's not as if it's an outlier for the space. If it's really the burden you are concerned about, you might look again at cryptocurrency. The burden just to use it is relatively high. Then there are the higher caveat emptor burdens. And then we get to the vast, vast sums lost through volatility, exchange costs, user error, incompetence, fraud, and theft. Being upset about KYC/AML and not about that is a situation of motes and beams.