4 ms·

Please read up on the oracle problem. All of the examples you list require external trust outside the blockchain, making its use moot. (Perhaps recurring subs

Please read up on the oracle problem. All of the examples you list require external trust outside the blockchain, making its use moot. (Perhaps recurring subscriptions could be done without external trust, but I don’t think it helps the domain much.)

EGreg 4y ago
No, you are totally wrong, and they don’t all require external trust, any more than sending emails requires last mile mail delivery. Yes, some things require physical items to be shipped but increasingly the value has been completely digitized. What makes you think I haven’t researched the oracle problem and hundreds of other things related to this space? Vitalik writes about tons of things in crypto, and so do I. I have been building solutions for years. They are FREE. If you don’t like them, don’t use them. If you don’t have time to even read a summary digest of what they do, please don’t patronize others. I don’t have time to read about how GPT transformers work in detail, and you won’t find me condescendingly telling people to please read up on the AI alignment problem. And certainly not knee-jerk dismissing and downvoting EVERYTHING related to AI without even spending a minute reading answers to mu own questions !
- creeble 4y ago
  Please explain how, e.g., escrow does not require trust outside the blockchain.
photon12 4y ago
100% of users have to trust the code used to generate random numbers for private keys they care about isn't backdoored. Only a subset of users will be able to do this successfully. There is no safety net or recourse for people who will lose their money to backdoored refurbished hardware wallets. Because poor people won't be able to afford newer wallets and will be scammed. There is no good solution to this problem that is actually usable by all classes of people who need financial services. I recently left a company that pivoted hard to building blockchain infrastructure because I couldn't find any way I could ever recommend my friends or family interact with the services the company was building. A lot of people are holding out for technical vaporware to solve these problems. I can't hold out anymore.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Well, this is the Trusted Computing Base. You trust Apple and Google every day with the devices, OS, browsers etc. They can impersonate you, and sure, you can say that for this reason we cannot have finalized transactions (because they can always be disputed). But you’d be wrong. First of all, each participant can control a small portion of the overall value (eg one vote in an election, or one student paying one teacher). Even if their keys are hacked, the real value is for the network itself to be secured. And the business logic to be followed no matter what! No corruption of the database, ever! For example, UniSwap is a smart contract factory and you trust every instance that comes out of it to be an battle tested and heavily audited piece of code you can trust. As of right now we are forced to trust the value and control of YOUR ENTIRE NETWORK to a big tech company that has all the infrastructure. That’s the best we have today, like how we trusted the Post Office to deliver mail and not tamper with it, until SMTP got adopted over the Internet. For more info, click here: https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram-and-why-decentralization-matters/ https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram...
  - photon12 4y ago
    There were MPC experts at the company I was at. We talked a lot about account abstraction design for our stack we were building. I'm not unfamiliar with anything you are suggesting. I'm saying there are classes of users for which there are no good solutions. Different people have different threat models.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      What do you mean by MPC? Sure different people have different threat models. Perhaps some classes of users don’t have good solutions, but we are building apps for the mainstream.
      - tromp 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_multi-party_computation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_multi-party_computation

EGreg 4y ago

No, you are totally wrong, and they don’t all require external trust, any more than sending emails requires last mile mail delivery. Yes, some things require physical items to be shipped but increasingly the value has been completely digitized. What makes you think I haven’t researched the oracle problem and hundreds of other things related to this space? Vitalik writes about tons of things in crypto, and so do I. I have been building solutions for years. They are FREE. If you don’t like them, don’t use them. If you don’t have time to even read a summary digest of what they do, please don’t patronize others. I don’t have time to read about how GPT transformers work in detail, and you won’t find me condescendingly telling people to please read up on the AI alignment problem. And certainly not knee-jerk dismissing and downvoting EVERYTHING related to AI without even spending a minute reading answers to mu own questions !

creeble 4y ago
Please explain how, e.g., escrow does not require trust outside the blockchain.

photon12 4y ago

100% of users have to trust the code used to generate random numbers for private keys they care about isn't backdoored. Only a subset of users will be able to do this successfully. There is no safety net or recourse for people who will lose their money to backdoored refurbished hardware wallets. Because poor people won't be able to afford newer wallets and will be scammed. There is no good solution to this problem that is actually usable by all classes of people who need financial services. I recently left a company that pivoted hard to building blockchain infrastructure because I couldn't find any way I could ever recommend my friends or family interact with the services the company was building. A lot of people are holding out for technical vaporware to solve these problems. I can't hold out anymore.

EGreg 4y ago
Well, this is the Trusted Computing Base. You trust Apple and Google every day with the devices, OS, browsers etc. They can impersonate you, and sure, you can say that for this reason we cannot have finalized transactions (because they can always be disputed). But you’d be wrong. First of all, each participant can control a small portion of the overall value (eg one vote in an election, or one student paying one teacher). Even if their keys are hacked, the real value is for the network itself to be secured. And the business logic to be followed no matter what! No corruption of the database, ever! For example, UniSwap is a smart contract factory and you trust every instance that comes out of it to be an battle tested and heavily audited piece of code you can trust. As of right now we are forced to trust the value and control of YOUR ENTIRE NETWORK to a big tech company that has all the infrastructure. That’s the best we have today, like how we trusted the Post Office to deliver mail and not tamper with it, until SMTP got adopted over the Internet. For more info, click here: https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram-and-why-decentralization-matters/ https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram...
- photon12 4y ago
  There were MPC experts at the company I was at. We talked a lot about account abstraction design for our stack we were building. I'm not unfamiliar with anything you are suggesting. I'm saying there are classes of users for which there are no good solutions. Different people have different threat models.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    What do you mean by MPC? Sure different people have different threat models. Perhaps some classes of users don’t have good solutions, but we are building apps for the mainstream.
    - tromp 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_multi-party_computation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_multi-party_computation